The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Magnesium for ME: IV vs transdermal, dosage, deficiency test dose?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Sasha, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Magnesium supplementation seems to used by several doctors treating ME. Recently, I started Freddd's b12 protocol but had to come off it because of what seemed to be symptoms of induced magnesium and potassium deficiency. I couldn't seem to supplement them enough to stop the symptoms. I was using Mg oil for transdermal application and an occasional Epsom salts bath.

    I'm going to restart Freddd's protocol at lower b12 doses to try to keep this under control but am thinking I should address any underlying magnesium deficiency. I haven't had a blood test but apparently serum levels aren't anyway helpful for detecting a deficiency.

    Some questions:

    1. IV vs transdermal: Dr Myhill and Dr Nathan (who did the study with richvank on his methylation/b12 protocol), for example, both give patients Mg supplementation in the form of injections or IV drips. I'm wondering why they would do this, given that Mg can be taken transdermally in the form of an oil (actually a highly saturated solution of Mg chloride) which of course doesn't hurt and doesn't require you to get a doctor to cooperate (a major obstacle for many of us). A lot of people (me included) have stomach problems if we take oral supplementation and I understand that absorption of Mg in the gut is anyway highly variable so I can see why oral supplementation might not be the best method. But IV vs transdermal?

    2. Overdosage: Dr Myhill writes in her e-book that oral Mg is extremely safe because too much causes diarrhoea. However, presumably this is not the case for IV/transdermal. How can we tell if we've taken too much via the transdermal oil and/or Epsom salts bath route? Is there a likely safe dose? I was thinking of 360mg via Mg oil transdermally plus a 500g Epsom salts bath every other night.

    3. Test dose for deficiency: Freddd's b12 protocol can induce potassium deficiency. He recommends a test dose of 500mg of potassium if, on his b12 protocol, you start to experience symptoms of possible potassium deficiency. If you feel better within 30 minutes, it indicates that potassium deficiency was indeed your problem and that you should increase your daily dose. Is there a similar test for Mg deficiency (either an acute one induced by Freddd's protocol or a chronic one)? If so, what's the test dose and how long does it take to see a response to that dose?
     
  2. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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  3. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Hi Glynis - I've seen accounts of people benefitting from IV Mg but my question is, why go to that trouble if you can absorb it transdermally? I'm wondering if there's some sort of disadvantage to transdermal. The advantages of painlessness, convenience and doctor-freeness seem so big that I'm wondering why it isn't widely used.
     
  4. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    At the bottom of the link, the lady who had the IV says that for her it was of far more benefit than transdermal (epsom salts or oral, anyway).

     
  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Oh! Sorry, Glynis, I didn't read it carefully enough.

    I think this raises the interesting question of whether this is a dose-related issue. I'm contemplating a 500g Epsom salts bath (a really hefty amount) because of a study by Dr Rosemary Waring (cited by Dr Myhill) in which 19 healthy people took an Epsom salts bath every day for 7 days. She says that significant increases in plasma Mg were found at a 1% solution equivalent to 600g Mg per bath.

    That's about 1lb of salts and it's really heavy. Just buying enough for a few baths and being able to carry it to your house is a serious enterprise - I've had mine delivered and have broken the order down into small enough units that I'll be able to carry the packages up my stairs! This makes me wonder whether most people having Epsom salts baths are actually using enough to make a difference - maybe they are just scattering a couple of handfuls in like I would have done (treating it like ordinary scented bath salts). There are limits to how much Mg can be absorbed through the gut (hence the limiting diarrhoea). I think it's possible that someone using oral supplementation and not much Epsom salts in their bath might actually get quite a low dose.

    Does anyone know what dose goes into these IV things?
     
  6. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Just found the answer to my own question in Dr Myhill's e-book. she recommends weekly doses (if you can't get daily) of 1g so that's about 1000mg/7 per day or 140mg/day. That's much lower than the 360mg/day in my Mg oil, which makes me wonder how well it is actually absorbed.
     
  7. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Sasha, I found this link, regarding Dr Lewis. It might be worth sending them an e-mail, with your queries, to see if they can offer any advice.

    Glynis x

    http://www.cfsdiscovery.com.au/
     
  8. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks, Glynis - that's an idea (in case anyone is wondering, Dr Lewis provided the IV Mg treatment mentioned in the link that Glynis provided). Actually, someone mentioned in another thread that Dr Enlander is a PR member and he uses Mg in an injection that contains other things for ME. I will try PMing him with a link to this thread (but I expect he is very busy and might not see it for a while!).
     

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