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Magnesium/Calcium Recommendations?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by SOC, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Daughter and I both need to increase magnesium and calcium. Does anyone have any recommendations or advice as to form (glycinate, pyruvate, malate), dosage, or brand? We already take a zillion pills every day, so I'm not too thrilled about taking 6-8 more, so I'd also be happy to hear if anyone has a clue to fewer pill options.
  2. Sparrow

    Sparrow Senior Member

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    Sympathy on the zillion pills. I cringe a little every time a new deficiency of mine is discovered.

    Malate can be a bit more expensive, but has been shown to have some potential side benefits in terms of pain, etc. (particularly with FM people), so that tends to be my top preference in terms of magnesium. I've also found the magnesium spray to be surprisingly effective (and helps with my temperamental back muscles as an added plus). Many brand are labeled "magnesium oil," but be warned that you may need to dilute it quite a bit to avoid skin irritation (it's not actually an oil, so dilutes fine in water).

    You may want to take the Ca and Mg separately as much as possible (with large doses, I haven't yet worked out a way to avoid all overlap), since they can compete for absorption. Might cut down very slightly on the dose you need.
  3. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    SOC: be aware, apparently in a subgroup of patients magnesium worsens OI. I forgot what thread it was, maybe the EDS one. I stopped just in case (I am not low).
  4. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    Thanks! I was looking at magnesium malate. Sounds like it would be a good form to try. I hadn't thought about magnesium "oil", but I'll look into it; it might be a way around the too many pills problem. :) Thanks for info about separating the doses in time. I think I'll try Ca in the morning and Mg in the evening and see how that goes.

    @Inester7, I'm still looking for the reference to Mg and OI. Since my daughter and I appear (at the moment anyway) to be different OI subgroups, it's probably wise to know which group might have a problem with Mg. Please let me know if you run across the reference again.
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I would also second the recommendations for magnesium malate and also the magnesium oil. I use the Ancient Minerals brand (I've tried them all!) and spray myself down about 10-15 minutes before I step into the bath or shower while I brush teeth etc. I've also gotten their magnesium flakes which are good as well for the bath. I like the idea of magnesium chloride vs always using magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) though I do use them as well and think they are a great bang for the buck. You can also make a footbath out of Epsom salts that is cheap and effective.

    I just bought some magnesium threonate but haven't used it long enough to know if I like it any better or not. It supposedly crosses the blood brain barrier.

    Ema
    SOC likes this.
  6. alice

    alice Senior Member

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    I just happened to see this article in Medscape right after reading SOC's post regarding Ca and Mg and thought I'd post it. The folks in this study were taking really high doses of Ca (1400 mg/day).
    Anyway I don't know the appropriate dosage. I used to take more, but have read several articles saying that high doses of Ca may not be good, so now I take only about 300 mg/day plus what is in my multi.

    I also like Mg Malate, and I take Mg Taurate in the evening as it's suppose to help with sleep. It would be interesting to see what dose others take of Ca and Mg.
    alice



    http://click.mail.medscape.com/?qs=598c0443f1ded98be62b2b178b906743b131fb7b299b13456b18b3ceefd3732b

    Too much of a good thing may be just that: too much. That is the conclusion of yet another study, this time a prospective, longitudinal, population-based cohort of Swedish women, looking at calcium intake and cardiovascular mortality.
    In this study, high rates of calcium intake were associated with higher all-cause and cardiovascular death rates but not with deaths from stroke, Karl Michaëlsson, MD, PhD, professor in medical epidemiology and senior consultant in orthopedic surgery at Uppsala University in Sweden, and colleagues report in an article published online February 13 in BMJ.
    The study is the latest in a series of contentious analyses linking calcium intake and cardiovascular events. Earlier this month, a National Institutes of Health–sponsored study suggested that a high intake of supplemental calcium increased the risk for cardiovascular disease (CVD) death in men, but not women.
    However, a commentator notes that the study results suggest that supplements, rather than the intake level, are the problem.
    The Swedish mammography cohort, established between 1987 and 1990, followed up 61,433 women born between 1914 and 1948 for a median of 19 years and used registry data to determine outcomes. During that period, there were 11,944 deaths from all causes, of which 3862 were from CVD, 1932 from ischemic heart disease, and 1100 from stroke.
    Dietary assessments from food frequency questionnaires at baseline and in 1997 were available for 38,984 women, from which the researchers estimated intakes of dietary and supplemental calcium.
    The highest intakes of calcium (>1400 mg/day) were associated with higher all-cause risk for death (after adjustment for age, total energy, vitamin D, and calcium supplement intake, as well as other dietary, physical, and demographic factors) as compared with intakes of 600 to 1000 mg/day (hazard ratio [HR], 1.40; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.17 - 1.67).
    Disease-specific mortality risks were elevated for CVD (HR, 1.49; 95% CI, 1.09 - 2.02) and for ischemic heart disease (HR, 2.14; 95% CI, 1.48 - 3.09) at daily calcium intakes above 1400 mg. At calcium intakes less than 600 mg/day, these same mortality risks were also elevated. None of these patterns was apparent for mortality from stroke.
    In an email exchange with Medscape Medical News, Dr. Michaëlsson said the association of calcium intake and all-cause and cardiovascular mortality "was especially strong if a high dietary intake of calcium was combined with calcium supplements."
    Women with the highest intake of calcium (>1400 mg/day) and who used supplement tablets had an all-cause risk for death 2.5 times higher than women who had similar total intakes but were not taking a supplement.
    The authors explain that serum calcium levels "are under tight homeostatic control" and do not normally correlate with the amount of calcium intake. However, low or very high intakes override this control, "causing changes in blood levels of calcium or calciotropic hormones."
    Complex Study Results; Weak Findings?
    Dr. Michaëlsson also noted that some previous studies have shown a similar relationship between calcium supplements and a higher risk for CVD but were not powered to look at mortality and did not assess the amount of dietary intake of calcium.
    He advised that one should not make recommendations on the basis of a single study, but emerging evidence suggests caution about high calcium intake. He also noted that a meta-analysis of randomized trials has shown that calcium supplementation actually increased the rate of hip fracture. "My present recommendation is to avoid calcium supplement use if you have a normal varied diet," he said.
    Commenting to Medscape Medical News by email, John Cleland, MD PhD, professor of cardiology at Hull York Medical School in Kingston-upon-Hull, United Kingdom, called the study results "extremely complex...with rather weak findings." He pointed out that in the study there were few patients or events in the group with high calcium intake (n = 1241; 2%), and the events were confined to those women taking supplements (total events, n = 23, of which 16 occurred among women taking any form of calcium supplement).
    Women with calcium intakes greater than 1400 mg/day who were taking calcium tablets had an adjusted all-cause mortality rate of 2.57 (95% CI, 1.19 - 5.55) compared with 1.17 (95% CI, 0.97 - 1.41) among women who had similar daily intakes but were not taking supplements. "So, it's not the diet but the pills that are the problem," Dr. Cleland concluded, which is essentially in agreement with what Dr. Michaëlsson said.
    Dr. Cleland raised the issues of what else may have been in the calcium pills and why the women were taking them; for example, if they had chronic kidney disease or osteoporosis. He said the article did not provide such information but just referred to a previous paper.
    He also pointed out that calcium tablets "have not been shown to reduce fracture rates or improve any other patient outcome that I know of." He recommended that people stop taking calcium supplements "until efficacy/safety is shown," and that this advice "should definitely include those taking them for osteoporosis and should perhaps include those taking them for [chronic kidney disease]." His recommendation? "Having a healthy balanced diet and avoiding water filters that reduce calcium in drinking water is probably best."
    This study was supported by the Swedish Research Council. The authors and Dr. Cleland have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
    BMJ. Published online February 13, 2013. Full text
    SOC likes this.
  7. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    maryb and SOC like this.
  8. Junto

    Junto

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    There are many papers and studies that show supplementation of calcium via pills is dangerous. I would get it through food, best one for this is bone broth. I think any chelated magnesium is good, 200-400mg per day.
    SOC likes this.
  9. Ciro

    Ciro

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    When taking calcium supplements, you need to be aware that many forms have very low absorption rate. Non-organic forms like calcium carbonate are purely absorbed. They also can cause some side effects such as constipation.

    Organic forms of calcium supplements, for example calcium citrates are much better. They cause less or no side effects and are way readily absorbed.

    Even better is getting calcium straight from food which normally contains other minerals and vitamins that aid absorption.

    Calcium can be found in many types of foods, nut only dairy products. Here is an example of calcium rich foods (both vegetarian and animal sources): http://www.foodtips.org/calcium-foods/

    However, there is one more thing to be aware. Some nutritionists and even MDs suggest that taking extra calcium to prevent osteoporosis may be counterproductive.

    It may deplete bones regenerative abilities sooner, so once you get older, the bones can't deposit any new calcium. Hence osteoporosis will occur despite previous calcium supplementation.

    They recommend consuming just recommended calcium doses, not exceeding them during life to avoid problems later in life....
  10. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    Here is a link to a well absorbed magnesium supplement. http://www.rnadrops.info/products/remag
    SOC likes this.
  11. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    http://www.naturalnews.com/038286_magnesium_deficiency_heart_disease.html
  12. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    http://www.naturalnews.com/038286_magnesium_deficiency_heart_disease.html
  13. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    http://www.naturalnews.com/038286_magnesium_deficiency_heart_disease.html
  14. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    The cheapest brand does the trick.
  15. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    Special NOTE:
    You should know some brands of Milk Of Magnesia like Phillips and Equate contain, inactive ingrediant, Sodium Hypochlorite this is common house hold bleach.

    There are some generic brands which contain only Magnesium Hydroxide and purified water, These are CVS Milk of Magnesia original flavor, and Walgreens brand Milk of Magnesia original flavor, and Vitacost Good Sense Milk of Magnesia Original flavor. Check both labels, Active ingrediants and Inactive ingrediants for unwanted chemicals. For best results your milk of magnesia should only contain Magnesium Hydroxide and puridied water. There may be other generic brands which may only contain Magnesium Hydroxide and puridied water as well.

    The finished product containes concentrated Magnesium bicarbonate and should be diluted.

    To make 4 liters of magnesium bicarbonate drinking water with approximately 125 mg of magnesium and approximately 625 mg of bicarbonate per liter and a pH of approximately 8+ measure and transfer 1/3 liter of the concentrate (333 ml) into a 4-liter container. Fill the container with 3 2/3 liters of purified water (no sodium fluoride), as desired.

     

    To prepare the water follow these steps:

     

    1. Chill a 1-liter bottle of unflavored seltzer, which is fully carbonated water. The seltzer should only contain water and carbon dioxide (CO2). Club soda is carbonated water with a small amount of added sodium and is also suitable.

    2. Shake the bottle of Milk of Magnesia well, then measure out 3 tablespoons (45 ml) and have it ready. The plastic measuring cup that comes with the MoM is accurate and ideal for the purpose.

    3. Remove the bottle of unflavored seltzer from the refrigerator without agitating it. Open it slowly and carefully to minimize the loss of CO2. As soon as the initial fizzing settles down, slowly add the pre-measured MoM. Promptly replace the cap on the water bottle and shake it vigorously for 30 seconds or so, making the liquid cloudy.

    After ½ hour or so the liquid will have cleared, and any un-dissolved magnesium hydroxide will have settled to the bottom of the bottle. Again shake the bottle vigorously for 30 seconds or so, making the liquid cloudy again. When the liquid again clears all of the magnesium hydroxide in the MoM should have reacted with all of the CO2 to become dissolved (ionized) magnesium and bicarbonate.

    If a small amount of un-dissolved magnesium hydroxide still remains in the bottom of the bottle as a sediment it may be ignored.

    This 1 liter of concentrated magnesium bicarbonate water will have approximately 1500 mg of magnesium and approximately 7500 mg of bicarbonate. It should be kept in the refrigerator. You may note that the sides of the bottle "cave in" when the liquid clears. This is a sign that the reaction is complete.



     



    Good all around Mg: Malate, Glycinate, Chloride & Epsom, including ReMag & other Mg water drops...
    Brain: most will cross BBB, but Orotate is very good for Multiple Sclerosis (Hans Nieper, MD)
    Heart: Malate, Taurate
    Stomach: Milk of Magnesia is great for upset stomachs, works far better than ant-acids
    Intestine: Citrate & Lactate have great affinity for bowel, but you can get too much of a good thing...
    Joints: again, general Mg works great, but MgCl oil & MgMSM are fantastic for spot issues, as well as overall Mg restoring...
    That's just a start & I invite others to share their uses & successes...
    maryb likes this.
  16. robertpcx

    robertpcx

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    VITAMIN C DECHLORINATION

    Vitamin C is a newer chemical method for neutralizing chlorine. Two forms of vitamin C, ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate, will neutralize chlorine. Neither is considered a hazardous chemical. First, vitamin C does not lower the dissolved oxygen as much as sulfur-based chemicals do. Second, vitamin C is not toxic to aquatic life at the levels used for dechlorinating water. Although ascorbic acid is mildly acidic and, in large doses, will lower the pH of the treated water, sodium ascorbate is neutral and will not affect the pH of the treated water or the receiving stream. Both forms of vitamin C are stable, with a shelf life of at least 1 year in a dry form if kept in a cool, dark place. Once it is placed in solution, however, vitamin C degrades in a day or two.

    Ascorbic Acid


    One gram of ascorbic acid will neutralize 1 milligram per liter of chlorine per 100 gallons of water. The reaction is very fast. The chemical reaction (Tikkanen and others 2001) of ascorbic acid with chlorine is shown below:

    C5H5O5CH2OH + HOCL → C5H3O5CH2OH + HCl + H2O

    Ascorbic acid + Hypochlorous acid → Dehydroascorbic acid + Hydrochloric acid + water

    Approximately 2.5 parts of ascorbic acid are required for neutralizing 1 part chlorine. Since ascorbic acid is weakly acidic, the pH of the treated water may decrease slightly in low alkaline waters.

    Sodium Ascorbate


    Sodium ascorbate will also neutralize chlorine. It is pH neutral and will not change the pH of the treated water. Sodium ascorbate is preferable for neutralizing high concentrations of chlorine. If a large amount of treated water is going to be discharged to a small stream, the pH of the treated water and the stream should be within 0.2 to 0.5 units of the receiving stream.

    The reaction (Tikkanen and others 2001) of sodium ascorbate with chlorine is shown below:

    C5H5O5CH2ONa + HOCL → C5H3O5CH2OH + NaCl + H2O

    Sodium ascorbate + Hypochlorous acid → Dehydroascorbic acid + Sodium chloride + water

    Approximately 2.8 parts of sodium ascorbate are required to neutralize 1 part chlorine. When vitamin C is oxidized, a weak acid called dehydroascorbic acid forms.

    Several studies have evaluated the use of ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate to neutralize low levels of chlorine—less than 2 milligrams per liter. Only one study (Tacoma Water Utility Report) evaluated the use of ascorbic acid to neutralize high levels of chlorine—up to 100 milligrams per liter. The Tacoma, WA, Water Utility Engineer recommends against using ascorbic acid to neutralize high levels of chlorine in large volumes of water because it lowers the pH of the treated water. The Tacoma Water Utility engineer recommends using sodium ascorbate instead.
    maryb likes this.
  17. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Calicum 1000-1200mg can be good for PMS symptoms (there have been studies done on that).
    I had a bad reaction to Blackmores brand of magnesium (cant remember what form that is) but when I switched to Thompsons organic magnesium .. I could take that fine.
  18. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    wow robert thats quite a price - plus shipping to the UK would be beyond me. Pity it looks a good product.
  19. Jarod

    Jarod Senior Member

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    planet earth
    Algae based products are getting good reviews on amazon for calcium. Apparently they are not supposed to be constipating.

    couple products that jump out with similar types of algae from south america:

    New Chapter Bone Strength Take Care


    Garden of Life Vitamin Code Raw Calcium


    Algaecal
  20. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    My nutritionist thinks that calcium from algae is the best absorbed. I use Grow Bone from the Garden of Life brand. I order it from Amazon.

    It has a lot of supporting minerals in addition to the calcium and also includes a bottle of strontium, which you take hours away from the calcium supplement.

    I've gained bone density since using this supplement in addition to light weights at the gym. I also take K2 drops and Biosil to support bone density.

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