1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
August 8th - What is the one thing about suffering with severe ME that the world needs to know?
Andrew Gladman brings our coverage of the Understanding & Remembrance Day for Severe ME, airing the voice of patients ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

MAF 878 Available - Anyone already using it?

Discussion in 'GcMAF' started by shannah, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    I really want to try this but I'm worried about iris and so want to start on a very low dose and i still can't find information on what a low dose would be. I see on the patient advocate's blogspot he mentions that the target dosage is three ounces per day but I don't know yet would class as a starting low dose. If anyone has any thoughts/ideas it would be great. Many thanks
  2. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    175
    It's not your English 7. The wording is not very clear at all.

    I am assuming that all the ingredients that they send you are dry. I am guessing, through my limited experience with making home made kefir and yogurt, that you would probably add milk to create a yogurt and a kefir mixture and leave out for 5 days to culture before starting to use it. At that point, you could start consuming the mixture but leaving it unrefrigerated for a further 5 days to continue culturing. At the 10 day mark, you would refrigerate it.

    Again, this is just guessing at the basics of the processing based on how kefir and yogurt making work.
  3. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    175
    I'm sure they've been very busy with world wide interest. You could try posting on their FB page or better yet emailing them. I received a reply to some of the questions I had.
  4. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    175
  5. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Shannah, I have emailed Dr Enlander's office with these questions and also wrote on his Facebook page. I have yet to get a reply. i will check out his website now, thanks for the links...
  6. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,871
    Likes:
    5,704
    Albuquerque
    I posted on Dr. Enlander's FaceBook page to ask how many nannograms were in a specific serving size as I am taking injections and don't want to take too much GcMAF. He has not yet answered.

    Best,
    Sushi
  7. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Someone with some scientific background wrote that about Gcmaf in probiotic form:

    'From all I know, macrophages wouldn't survive the environment in the intestine and wouldn't be able to cross the lining of the gut. look at it this way, the stomach is adapted to prevent microorganisms and toxins in our food from entering the body and mostly it does a very good job of it. Only a very few can cause us illness. 99% + cannot. A macrophage is a cell type produced by the immune system that within the circulatory system targets a very specific type of microorganism. It has no outer defences that enable it to survive anywhere else outside the body.'

    I'm not a scientist but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. Has Dr Enlander or Dr Cheney made any comments on how the Gcmaf in yoghurt survives the environment in the intestine and crosses the lining of the gut? Many thanks
  8. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Sushi. I hope he does write on his Facebook page about dosage for the MAF 838... Fingers crossed...I wonder whether it's because they don't really know? I hope not...
  9. froufox

    froufox Senior Member

    Messages:
    397
    Likes:
    65
    Hi Anniekim, just to share my experience, I tried MAF 314 last yr, which presumably is very similar to MAF 878 and I herxed quite strongly on it...I felt a lot more exhausted, inflamed and depressed ... it was very similar to the response I had to the injectable GcMAF, which I took for several months, and this was what convinced me that it was having a systemic effect. I also experienced benefits from the probiotic...it cleared my gut out and my gut felt the most normal than it had done in yrs. In general I felt like I had more energy after the herxing passed and my gut improved. I only tried 2 pots of the stuff so I dont know how things might have progressed had I taken it for a longer period. But just based on that short experiment my experience is that it was definitely way more potent than just a regular probiotic.

    With regard to what that person says about macrophages being too big to cross the gut barrier, I wonder if you have leaky gut that would make any difference? Just a thought, but either way it definitely produced a systemic response in my case. I don't know but I'm assuming that the MAF 878 would be very similar, and that it would be prudent to start on a low dose.

    Just to add, with the MAF 314 I ate half a pot (a pot was about the same as a small pot of regular yoghurt) and then another half pot a few days later, and then waited a month before doing the same with the 2nd pot. As far as I recall the recommended dose was to eat 1 pot a day but that would have been way too much for me.
  10. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Thanks Froufox for your post, really helpful information. Yes, I wondered whether leaky gut could make a difference. Would be good for leaky gut to actually be of benefit for once!

    May I ask how you got on with the Gcmaf injections and why you stopped taking them?

    Many thanks
  11. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,551
    Likes:
    2,516
    U.K
    You dont need to sign up to facebook - you can e mail Dr Enlander for more info -

    Denlander@aol.com

    I e mailed on friday, but i think its too soon for a response - am definately going to give it a try. Costwise its cheaper than Maf314 which is 1,000 euros per 6 months - MAF878 works out at £70 per month (£840 per year) plus postage. The extra costs on the MAF314 are the (one off) course in vienna (at 300 euros) plus travel accomodation etc.

    I cant wait to get a reply and order some!
    Justy.
  12. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,551
    Likes:
    2,516
    U.K
    I see nothing on Dr Enlanders facebook page when i click on the facebook link. I have sent a friend request to see if that means i will be able to see all the information on his page and join in the discussions. It seems strange that it isnt a public page - i cant imagine he has time to accept individual friend requests - well. I have e mailed and joined facebook - now its just wait and see. I hope i get a response from somewhere soon.
    All the best, Justyx
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,871
    Likes:
    5,704
    Albuquerque
    He does accept individual friend requests, but you might have to wait a bit! It says he has 408 friends and I'd guess a lot of them are forum members here.

    Sushi
    justy likes this.
  14. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

    Messages:
    382
    Likes:
    106
    Great Plains, US
    I think I ordered some of this. Not sure if I'll actually get it! I guess they don't have time to write responses to everyone. I really hope it comes with instructions. I'm trying to figure out how I would keep it at 80 degrees for five days. And if you use plain or sweetened yogurt.

    I agree, Inester 7, that it sounds a little scary to be drinking yogurt that has been sitting out for 5-10 days! Some of us have major issues with food poisoning.

    Anniekim, the MAF doesn't contain any macrophages. It contains macrophage activating factor.
  15. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

    Messages:
    933
    Likes:
    102
    London, UK
    I think you are getting GcMAF (which is a molecule) mixed-up with macrophages (a cell type). The person above is saying that macrophages can not enter the gut. They are not saying that GcMAF isn't systemically absorbed from the gut.
  16. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,441
    Likes:
    1,936
    London
    I found one of the good things about the yoghurt is that one can drink a small amount each day, judge the effect and then cut it down or increase it as needed. When I tried the MAF314 I aimed for one of the 6 oz pots a day (because that was what I was given) but I started with a 1/3, and then a 1/2 to see how I reacted.

    When I thought I might have IRIS (because of the severe sore glands, throat etc) I just cut back and started again at a small dose.
  17. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    175
    Helpful info to know uk - thanks!

    Did you culture yours in a yogurt maker? If so, would you happen to know what temperature it ran at? Would you say the temperature control was critical to the process as it seems to be when making homemade yogurt? I think most yogurt makers run around 110 degrees which is much higher than Dr. E's office is recommending.
  18. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

    Messages:
    588
    Likes:
    193
    U.K
    Forebearance and Garcia, thanks for sharing that I misunderstood about Gcmaf and correcting me, very helpful. Am clueless, I admit...

    Ukxmrv, thanks for sharing your experiences of dosing with Maf 314 yoghurt, very helpful.

    Shannah, I too am interested in finding out more about temperature control for the Maf 838...
  19. justy

    justy Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,551
    Likes:
    2,516
    U.K
    Forbearance - you wouldnt normally use sweetened yoghurt when growing cultures as the sugar interacts with the probiotics. Do please let us know when it arrives to you, and if it has any more instructions with it. Did you order it from e bay?

    UK - are you still taking the MAF314 (sorry if youve already said) just wondering if you could tell us more about your experiences with it? (again apologies if you have already - cant keep up with these threads at the moment)

    I'm still waiting for replies from Dr Enlander.
    All the best, Justy
  20. Overstressed

    Overstressed Senior Member

    Messages:
    401
    Likes:
    126
    Belgium
    Hi anniekim,

    from what I understood, Gc-Maf is called a macrophage activation factor, which activates macrophages. But macrophages activate on their turn, other immune cells. By doing this, a whole cascade of immune cells are activated, not just only macrophages. Since Gc-Maf improves your immune system in the gut, I guess there's one or other mechanism where the right immune cells(T-helper cells ?) are activated.

    I had somewhere seen a nice graphical picture of what macrophages do, it would clear much up. I will see if I can find it.

    Best regards,
    OS.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page