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M.E. caused by enterovirus?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Jan 24, 2014.

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    @Raindrop

    Blood testing relays specificity but less sensitive, done only via ARUP

    Biopsy via endoscopy x4 relays high sensitivity but lacks specificity, VP1 only done via EV Med
     
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  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    The fidelity of the 5D8/1 antibody against VP1 was confirmed in this paper from February. From the paper:

    RESULTS:
    Clone 5D8/1 labelled CKB, but not ATP5B, on western blots performed under denaturing conditions. In cultured human cell lines, isolated human islets and pancreas sections from patients with type 1 diabetes, the immunolabelling of ATP5B, CKB and VP1 by 5D8/1 was readily distinguishable. Moreover, in a human tissue microarray displaying more than 80 different cells and tissues, only two (stomach and colon; both of which are potential sites of enterovirus infection) were immunopositive when stained with clone 5D8/1.

    CONCLUSIONS/INTERPRETATION:
    When used under carefully optimised conditions, the immunolabelling pattern detected in sections of human pancreas with clone 5D8/1 did not reflect cross-reactivity with either ATP5B or CKB. Rather, 5D8/1 is likely to be representative of enteroviral antigen expression.
     
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  3. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    This study writes about the mechanism, how coxsackie persists in brain and central nervous system:



     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @jepps
    To complement that study of coxsackievirus B infected astrocytes in human cell lines, there is also an in vivo study showing that coxsackievirus B infects astrocyte cells in mice brains:
    It is particularly interesting that the cytokines IL-1β, TNF-α and IL-6 were released by this coxsackievirus B infection of mouse astrocytes, because Rönnbäck and Hansson have hypothesized that these exact three cytokines may underpin mental fatigue (they are the three main sickness behavior cytokines):
    As well as astrocytes, this study shows coxsackievirus B also seems to be able to chronically infect the neural progenitor cells (stems cells) of the brain.

    In terms of how this coxsackievirus B infection manages to persist in the brain and central nervous system, this paper says that that coxsackievirus B may persist in the CNS as a low-level, noncytolytic infection.
     
  5. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    This has nothing to do with enteroviruses in the brain, but I found it also interesting, as it shows, how coxsackie can result in autoimmunity and inflammatory disease:

    http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.co.at/search/label/enterovirus
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @jepps
    I also came across that same blog article theorizing how enteroviruses might trigger autoimmunity, and started a thread on it here.
     
  7. jepps

    jepps Senior Member

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    Thank you for posting this, sorry, that I did not find this. Time will see, if treating viruses and underlying causes improves our chronic disease:). But it is helpful to understand potential relationships. PR is such a good place for this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
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  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @jepps
    One thing to note is that the chronic inflammatory condition of coxsackievirus B (CVB) myocarditis (heart muscle inflammation) has been classed as autoimmune, but @Jonathan Edwards has pointed out that the inflammation in CVB myocarditis is not true autoimmunity.

    I am guessing that chronic CVB myocarditis was perhaps thought of as an autoimmune reaction because, after the initial acute coxsackievirus B infection of the heart, no infectious viral particles can be found in the heart muscle in adult myocarditis (ref: here). Thus there was no explanation as to why the immune system keeps attacking the heart muscle in this chronic inflammatory way.

    However, we now know that there appears to be a residue of non-cytolytic enteroviruses left inside the heart muscle cells after the acute CVB infection is over, and it may well be that these non-cytolytic viruses are the cause of the continued heart muscle inflammation: the immune system sees that there is still a virus inside the heart muscle cells, and so keeps attacking them.

    Likewise, non-cytolytic enteroviruses living inside the astrocyte cells and neural progenitor cells of the brain may be responsible for the continued brain inflammation found in ME/CFS patients — brain inflammation that may underlie many ME/CFS symptoms.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
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  9. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    hi @Hip

    do you know if the nagalase test is sensitive to enterovirus'?
     
  10. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I’m chronically infected with an enterovirus. I started being ill in 2014 and had a gastric biopsy analyzed by Dr Chia 3 years later. It was positive.
     
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  11. perrier

    perrier Senior Member

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    And how are you being treated? Thanks.
     
    Dechi likes this.
  12. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    Well, since there is no treatment any doctor I meet believes in apparently, I am not really treated.

    I convinced my doctor to prescribe nimotop, which I’ve been taking for a while, but haven’t been able to get much more. I want to have my blood tested for the type of enterovirus that’s infecting me but I’m having trouble finding someone to help with that.

    I seem to be slowly but steadily declining and there isn’t much that I can do about it except rest as much as I can.

    My most importwnt battle was to try and get disability. When this is over, maybe I can be more active on being well. Or maybe I’ll be too blasé. Sorry.
     
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  13. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Dechi what were your initial symptoms when you were infected and do you still have all those same symptoms?
     
  14. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I had two separate infections, about 18 months apart. The first one was the worst flu I ever had. I felt so weak I could barely stand up and had to sleep a lot both day and night. It took me about 3 weeks to recover (or so ai thought). After that I would always get the infamous lactic acid feeling in my legs whenever I climbed more than a few stairs. I used to train hard and do weight lifting and sometimes I would almost faint after a workout.

    Second infection was like the worst stomach flu. I was very dizzy, could barely stand and walk, felt weak and had severe diarrhea for a few hours. After this one I knew I was never the same. I kept going downhill and had to stop working about six months after the viral infection.

    I still have the same symptoms, and many more. Except for diarrhea. My symptoms are variable in intensity depending on how much energy I spend and how much stress I get, but they never completely go away.
     
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  15. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Dechi did dr chia not advise any treatment options?
     
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  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't really understand the question. Can you give more details.
     
  17. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    I’m from Canada so I never saw Dr Chia. My biopsy was sent to him. I tried to get him to give me advice but was told I needed to see him in person or he would not prescribe anything. Maybe I’ll go to California next summer !
     
  18. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    the nagalase test is apparently an extremely sensitive marker for all cancers and certain viruses, im wondering if enterovirus may be one of them and might be another testing option

    its a much easier test to get than the biopsy and micro neutralization test
     
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I've never heard of nagalase being connected to enteroviruses.
     
  20. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    ive just found online that apparently enterovirus' can effect nagalase levels, but then so can many other things like gut bacteria.

    all these tests are very hard to get done, especially if outside the US. might just be easier to try the treatments instead, the few that currently exist anyway
     

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