1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

M.E. caused by enterovirus?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by knackers323, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes:
    2,199
    According to leading researchers like Dr John Chia and Dr Jonathan Kerr, these two infectious agents are considered known causes of ME/CFS:

    Chronic Chlamydia pneumoniae infection: a treatable cause of chronic fatigue syndrome.
    Chia JK, Chia LY

    Chronic fatigue syndrome and arthralgia following parvovirus B19 infection
    Kerr JR, Bracewell J, Laing I, Mattey DL, Bernstein RM, Bruce IN, Tyrrell DA.

    Successful Intravenous Immunoglobulin Therapy in 3 Cases of Parvovirus B19–Associated Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
    J. R. Kerr, V. S. Cunniffe, P. Kelleher, R. M. Bernstein, and I. N. Bruce

    More proof that parvovirus B19 and Chlamydia pneumoniae cause ME/CFS also comes from the fact that these pathogens are treatable, and once you treat these infections, the ME/CFS symptoms disappear.


    Why do most individuals (90%) who catch poliovirus show no symptoms at all (asymptomatic), but a very small percentage (1%) will get paralytic poliomyelitis from the poliovirus?

    Answer: because there are obviously other factors involved, and these other factors determine whether poliovirus causes paralytic poliomyelitis or not.

    However, in spite of the fact only a small percentage develop paralytic poliomyelitis from poliovirus, nobody would argue that poliovirus is not the cause of paralytic poliomyelitis.

    Likewise, if enterovirus does turn out to be a major cause of ME/CFS, that does not imply that enterovirus will always cause ME/CFS in everyone who catches it. Even HIV does not cause AIDS in everyone, because certain individuals are largely immune to HIV.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    Valentijn and SOC like this.
  2. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,780
    Likes:
    5,859
    Cornwall England
    As you said "if enterovirus does turn out to be a major cause of ME/CFS"...

    I would be more than happy to personally contribute to a decent research project if someone like Lipkin (for example) were to say it was a theory worth pursuing.

    Would you like to draft something I can forward to Ian Lipkin to see what his opinion on the previous research and the theory from Chia might be? It might see him meet with Chia and move things forward.

    Though I still can't understand why Chia has not done more to pursue this line of research himself. Perhaps it is asking to much but he did say I think that little interest has been shown in this research - even from those involved in ME - there must be a reason for this: I mean people have been in pursuit of 'the cause' for 50 years so why hasn't this been jumped on?

    I was disappointed to see Kerr leave the field and that nobody picked up his research and ran with it - as I am sure you would be if the same happened to Chia's work.
    Ecoclimber and end like this.
  3. end

    end Senior Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes:
    123
    That would be a sad day indeed. I do not understand(I may have missed the point in this thread)why nobody else seems to be interested in Dr Chia's work... If some one shares a personal stake in an illness does that some how imply a bias?? I mean even KDM refered to Dr Chia's work as 'that American' with out even making reference to his name :(
    Sammy and Izola like this.
  4. philpot

    philpot

    Messages:
    48
    Likes:
    69
    UK
    Not too many people were that interested in MLK, Ghandi and Mandela but they got there in the end. :)

    The research and interest with regards to ME/CFS is rather fragmented and this is really the issue. I believe this is because ME/CFS and other immune system related illnesses have not been that well known about in the past and in fact are now on the increase; which I believe is due to the immune system having to deal with a whole new variety of chemicals and toxins and virus mutations which it had not evolved to deal with.

    As we all know there have been many high profile people who have dx'd from cancer, etc., whereas I do not see so many having issues with ME/CFS. If for example the Queen of England, President of the USA or George Clooney was suddenly struck down with ME/CFS then we many see a quicker increase in interest. This is why all the ME/CFS organisations need to get together to form one coordinated body/voice.

    Regards.
    Izola and end like this.
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes:
    2,199
    @Firestormm
    I understand that Dr Chia is himself is a little sadden by the lack of response to his enterovirus findings. Replication by other researchers is very important in establishing the validity of the research.

    In fact Dr Chia's research itself replicated and validated the earlier ME/CFS enterovirus work performed by the British researchers, mainly in the 1980s and 1990s — see below for links to these early British studies.

    So enterovirus is the most studied virus in ME/CFS, and the virus that has consistently been most linked to ME/CFS.

    Just for completeness, Dr John Chia's ME/CFS enterovirus studies are these:
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
    Sidereal, merylg, Helen and 5 others like this.
  6. Firestormm

    Firestormm Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,780
    Likes:
    5,859
    Cornwall England
    Thanks @Hip It is always handy to have it all in once place. It doesn't explain why this has not progressed unfortunately - and the offer still stands if you want to draft something for Dr. Lipkin to review - assuming he is able of course - I will pass it along (or you can yourself of course - not saying I have his ear or anything).
    merylg, Izola, SOC and 1 other person like this.
  7. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,106
    Likes:
    3,154
    Midwest USA
    So for someone not able to have the gut biopsy test, is it worth doing the ARUP panel *first* as a means to try to convince a doctor to do the more sensitive biopsy?
    merylg and Izola like this.
  8. Wally

    Wally Senior Member

    Messages:
    287
    Likes:
    502
    http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/our-faculty/profile?uni=wil2001

    Dr. Ian Lipkin
    [​IMG]

    Contact Information

    Office/Address:

    Center for Infection and Immunity, 722 West 168th Street, Room 1703a

    New York, NY 10032

    USA

    Website Address:

    Homepage URL

    Phone:

    212-342-9033

    Fax:

    212-342-9044

    E-mail:

    wil2001@columbia.edu
    merylg, NK17, Izola and 2 others like this.
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes:
    2,199
    I understand that Dr Chia uses just the ARUP Labs enterovirus tests for many patients, because the stomach biopsy is more difficult to do (you have to first find a willing gastroenterologist, and then you have to go through a procedure involving sticking an endoscope down your throat in order to take a stomach tissue biopsy).
    merylg, Izola and Ema like this.
  10. end

    end Senior Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes:
    123
    Hip, it may also be worth mentioning that most LABS HOLD BIOPSIES for DECADES in some cases

    They are very stable. Mine were sent to Dr Chia from a Lab here in Australia that had my samples 'on ice' from an endoscopy in the past
    Sammy, merylg, NK17 and 3 others like this.
  11. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    It's a likely suspect. Its targets are all in line w/ M.E.
    merylg likes this.
  12. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    If doctors were lawyers they would be disbarred.
    NK17, Raindrop, Iquitos and 2 others like this.
  13. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    Yeah!
  14. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    Wiki:vomit:
  15. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    M.E. is fine and now I know how to spell it!
    heapsreal likes this.
  16. Raindrop

    Raindrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    110
    USA
    Judy,
    Finally getting back to this. It would be very hard to get to Dr. Chia. I last understood that there was
    nothing via *blood tests* that he could "work with" very well. Thought that he HAD to order endoscopy
    (?) to be able to diagnose and to treat. Are you saying that he DOES have a way of figuring out
    if you have the Coxsackie enterovirus through blood work alone? (I once a year or two called his
    office and thought they said the endoscopy was necessary) Are there OTHER
    viruses he is looking for other than the standard CFS work up type we have probably
    all had ? (Maybe it would be helpful to just know which ones he tests for) If he can figure out if you have it,
    my understanding was that there is no way to TREAT it, other than with his Herbs out of China
    I think and these have not been very successful from what I heard. Very much appreciate the
    information. Maybe reconsider Chia and the effort to go there.
  17. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    I had a thought but forgot what it was. :confused::oops::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:
    Raindrop likes this.
  18. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Likes:
    5,506
    USA
    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    That happens to me ALL the time.
    Izola likes this.
  19. Raindrop

    Raindrop Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    110
    USA
    LOVE IT!
    Hopefully you will think of it later :)
    Izola likes this.
  20. Izola

    Izola Senior Member

    Messages:
    331
    Likes:
    310
    HI: Not the same thought that I forgot, I think!!. . . McEvedy and Beard paper " "theory made their dishonest and stupid thoughts into my 1rst year Soc text in 1973 as established fact. My young mind read that and said "No way, no how. You can't catch unspoken thoughts through the air and make a somatic disease from it--the miasma theory of disease has long been disproven." I want my tuition back for that semester!!

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page