1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and the Magic of the Canine Factor
There's been plenty of research indicating that having pets is good for your health. I never really noticed any particular benefits to having cats, though that may have had more to do with my cats. They've been fairly indifferent to my presence and we've shared a live-and-let-live...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Andrew, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes:
    1,229
    Los Angeles, USA
    Thanks for the dosage, carolwxyz99. This helps me get a good ballpark number.

    This thing continues to confuse me, though. I read that in liquid form it deteriorates in the bottle so fast as to be useless. So I got some softgels and even read bad things about that. So that leaves the little sachets, which I have trouble taking. But I'm never sure what is the correct information about how it's packaged.
  2. Athene

    Athene Never give up

    Messages:
    1,130
    Likes:
    150
    Italy
    Hi folks,
    I've got a book about nutrition which talks about nutrients and cancer, and it says 10 grams a day are used to treat cancer. It doesn't specify what form is used though. Not very helpful but I thought I'd mention it.

    Thanks for starting this thread BTW.
    I was taking 10g a day of timed release vitamin C and had scurvy symptoms: bleeding gums, spontaneous bruising all over my body, old scars going red and sore.
    Since I started using lypo-sperical Vit C I have gone down to 3g a day and the symptoms are clearing up. Evidently I just wasn't absorbing the ordinary Vit c.
  3. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    10
    I am having a little bit of a problem with the lipo spherical vitamin C because there is alcohol in it. I think it is OK if I let it stand for a couple of hours, rather than the 15 minutes, and the liquid I put it in is room temperature and not below. I am trying to find out the maximum temperature that is allowed. I think it is OK for it to stand for a few hours, but after about 10 hours it oxidises.

    I am having an appointment with my cancer doctor on Tuesday so she may be able to tell me more about the dosage. It was a nurse from a cancer consultancy organisation that mentioned 6 sachets a day. But she did say some people take as much as 30 sachets a day - I would guess they have a more advanced form of cancer.
  4. Athene

    Athene Never give up

    Messages:
    1,130
    Likes:
    150
    Italy
    Wow, I hadn't noticed alcohol in th ingredients! That must be why it tastes so gross. I have a major alcohol aversion.
  5. liverock

    liverock Senior Member

    Messages:
    506
    Likes:
    396
    UK
  6. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    10
    Well I spoke to my environmental cancer doctor in the UK and she was told by Hickey that one needs to take 15g a day of lipo-spherical vitamin C to get a cytotoxic dose. She is not into the lipospherical Vit C though. I am going to contact a doc in York who combines i.v. Vitamin C with the lipospherical.

    Its interesting that a high carbohydrate diet worsens the effect of vit C and breast cancer prognosis. I am always better on a lower carbohydrate diet. The only problem is I need to eat red meat when on a very low carbohydrate diet which is also said to be bad for breast cancer, as I can't eat eggs, chicken, dairy and many types of beans.
  7. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    10
    Apparently the alcohol is the reason they tell you to let it stand for 15 minutes before taking. But that is definitely not long enough for moi.
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes:
    1,229
    Los Angeles, USA
    FWIW, my doctor is familiar with lypospheric vit c and he believes that it's impossible to get an adequate dose orally.
    brenda likes this.
  9. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    10
    I have now seen a doc who uses lypospheric vit C with cancer. His protocol uses 12 sachets (12 g) a day of the lypospheric vit C in 3 divided doses, plus 15-20g of powdered ascorbic acid a day in 3-4 divided doses plus r-lipoic acid 3 x a day. Apparently r-lipoic acid potentiates the effect of the vitamin C considerably. An in-vitro study has shown lipoic acid to reduce the level of Vit C needed to produce an anti cancer effect by about 5 times. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2363673/pdf/84-6691814a.pdf

    I've started the protocol and have just had bloods measured to measure the vit C levels. I'll keep you all posted. The dosage of r-lipoic acid of 150 mg 3 x a day was a bit high to start with as it may have made me a bit fluey so have reduced it a bit and will build up more slowly.
  10. garcia

    garcia Aristocrat Extraordinaire

    Messages:
    933
    Likes:
    102
    London, UK
    Keep us informed carol. Very interested in your progress. Good luck!
  11. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,091
    Likes:
    378
    twitpic.com/photos/SlayaDragon
    Since I started mold/biotoxin avoidance, I have periodically gotten Vitamin C IV's. These have been wonderfully effective for me. It feels to me like it "erases" the effects of mold exposures. Now that my mold reactivity in general is lower, the Iv's push me into feeling totally normal unless I get a quite large exposure.

    This makes some sense, since biotoxins exert most of their damage through oxidative stress. Insofar as the Vitamin C is an antioxidant, the damage could be cancelled out.

    A question is why most people with CFS don't benefit from this treatment very much. These were used in the very early days of CFS, and while there were some positive reports, apparently these were scattered.

    This made more sense to me when someone told me that in too high of an amount, Vitamin C could have a pro-oxidant effect. In high dose IV's, the Vitamin C turns to hydrogen peroxide in the cells. This specifically kills cancer and bugs like Lyme, so it can be a good thing. But it doesn't help cancel out oxidative stress (such as biotoxin exposures) when that happens.

    It seems reasonable to me that if someone is getting just a reasonable amount of oxidative stress, the Vitamin C IV's would help. But if someone is getting a whole lot of oxidative stress (e.g. from living in a really moldy place), the extent to which the "antioxidant dose" of Vitamin C (which is something less than 10 g) could cancel it out might be limited.

    I also take a lot of oral Vitamin C (15-30 g, sometimes even more). I think this is worth doing, but it doesn't help with the mold symptoms nearly as much as the IV form. I've always thought the absorption likely was the problem.

    The idea that the lypospheric Vitamin C might give some of the benefits of the IV form without the trouble of getting the IV's is interesting. I'm going to try some.

    Kathi remarked early in the thread about a patient from Kansas who received benefit from this product. This makes sense to me after my recent trip from Kansas, which was by far the best state I've been to in terms of outdoor biotoxins. The idea that someone could go from Incline Village (which had/has major problems with outdoor and indoor biotoxins) to Kansas (and perhaps stumble upon a really good house) and get a remission spontaneously wouldn't surprise me at all. Adding helpful supplements might help that along, I would think. (And in fact, the person I visited is a former CFSer who did just that with other supplements.)

    Kathi, do you know how much mold exposure you were getting when you found these products working for you?

    Best, Lisa
    Wayne likes this.
  12. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Likes:
    10
    I had my blood vit C levels measured about a week or two after I started the high dose protocol (see post 29 of this thread). I had made my way up to the maximum dose about 2 or 3 days before the blood test. My levels were 149 umol/l about 2 hours after taking the vit C. This is much lower than the levels in the study. http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi144.html .

    I am letting the lipospherical vit C stand in liquid for half an hour to an hour before drinking to make sure alcohol evaporates. I am going to check with manufactuer whether letting it stand for this long is OK.

    Initially I found that my immune system felt stronger. But I have now gone down with a bug since the weather has changed. Hopefully this will clear up quicker.
  13. foggyfroggy

    foggyfroggy

    Messages:
    15
    Likes:
    0
    Oregon
    C Intolerance

    So, whenever I take more than about 4 grams of C I get neuro-excito-toxic and have fun things like convulsions. A big dose of calcium combined with Magnesium will bring me out of it but it's VERY unpleasant. This has happened to me since I was a kid and my mother read about vit. C in a book by Adele Davis (remember her anyone?) Luckily when I went all herky jerky on her she knew to stuff some powdered Dolomite mixed with honey down me. Yuck!!!!!

    Does this not happen to anyone else?? :confused:
  14. sela

    sela Senior Member

    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    5
    marin co, ca
    i am curious about the c degrading in the gel form. does anyone, or andrew who cited it, know where they got that information. it would be cheaper to buy it without the sachet form. anyone tried the glutathione?
  15. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,204
    Likes:
    1,327
    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi Lisa,

    I'm getting ready to get started on a Liposomal C regimen, and was wondering if you ever got around to try lypospheric C. If so, how did it work? The more I read about liposomal C, the more my intuition is telling me it could be a very good thing for me. I'm currently watching some YouTube videos to learn how to make my own (much less expensive). --- Thanks!

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page