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Lyme results and other results

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by erist, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. erist

    erist

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    Twin Cities
    At first my LLMD and chronic fatigue specialist was "95% sure" I didn't have lyme based on my symptom profile. After a very low CD57 (in the 20s) she decided to order the Igenex Lyme tests. The first round of tests is

    IgM Western Blot
    (positive by Igenex standards and CDC standards)

    18+
    31++
    39+
    41+
    83-93 IND

    However the IgG is negative

    How can IgM be positive and IgG be negative (I thought IgM was current infection and IgG past infection?)

    I am assuming she will want to diagnose chronic lyme based on this, but I also feel yeast is a huge problem and I am worried about the abx regimen....

    --

    In other (better) news all my viral titers looked great! Just past exposure to EBV, HSV1 and HHV6 which I knew,but all negative for active infections and every single food I tested came back negative on an ELISA test (though I kno ELISA food tests are not super useful, allnegative is better than lots I think (which is what I had 10 years ago before I started working to really clean up my diet) So basically what I have to go on right now are thyroid,testosterone and DHEA-S abnormalities, a history of B12 and D abnormalities (though both currently normal with supplementation) and still waiting for Methylation test results
  2. erist

    erist

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    Twin Cities
    Just got back the Band 31 KdA epitope test. Also positive.

    Anyone?
  3. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    Hi erist,

    My IgM is positive and my IgG is negative,similar to yours. the Lyme literate physician told me that was because Borrelia borgdorferi can change back into an active infection from an inactive one and only show up as IgM positive.

    Lyme testing is notoriously difficult. If you feel you have the symptoms that might be Lyme Disease, the best thing is to try the antibiotics and see how you react. I could not tolerate the treatment for long enough to help me. The antibiotics would help for a few days, then I would get intolerable spinal pain.

    I wouldn't let the testing stop you if you feel the antibiotics might help your symptoms. Doxycycline is one that I could tolerate and helped for a while. Just be sure to take probiotics 2 hours before or 4 hours after antibiotics. Sounds easy, but they put you on multiple drugs at once and it can become a challenge.

    Good luck to you.
  4. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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    Hi erist, I can’t really comment on your lyme results the tests are very controversial and frequently have false positives leading to people getting treated when they don’t have it. Most sources say that IgM becomes positive very quickly and IgG becomes positive a few weeks after infection and remains for life, in which case your results say you have only just become infected. But some docs believe that you can be infected but the IgG has become negative. Basically the tests are unreliable and results are often highly confusing so I certainly can’t tell you what they mean. I would recommend getting several opinions on the results from docs who really know what they’re doing!!

    If you want to post your thyroid, testosterone and DHEA-S results people may be able to help, but personally I think trying to work out Lyme tests are best left to the experts.

    Sorry I can’t be of more help

    All the best
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Midwest USA
    Here is part of a blog post that you might find helpful:

    Many patients have been told they do not have chronic Lyme disease because Western blotantibodies are in the IgM class, not the IgG class. Normally, the immune system makes IgMantibodies in early infection and then makes IgG antibodies in late infection. Patient selection for major clinical studies have been chosen based on IgG responses. Mainstream thinking claims that the lack of Lyme IgM antibodies into IgG antibodies is evidence the test is false positive. At any rate, this excludes the diagnosis of chronic Lyme disease. All major NIH sponsored studies have only included patients who are CDC positive by IgG standards. In addition, the CDC allows for skipping the 2 stage test (an improvement? I think not): ELISA then Western, if the patient sample is IgG positive. I have recently scoured the medical literature in search of papers which address the Lyme IgM/IgG issue. There are hundreds of scientific paper published about Lyme disease--many recent. The IgM vs IgG issue remainslargely untouched.

    What I have found is that: Steere published an ancient studyof Lyme patients infected 20 years ago. He found persistent antibodies of both the IgM and IgG class. Igenex has clinical studies: the presence of 2 specific IgM (or IgG) bands shows exposure to Borrelia burgdoreri (Lyme). There are studies which discuss false positive reaction as well as studies which discuss the specificity of certain antibodies. Existing literature supports the idea that certain Western Blot antibodies are highly specific for Lyme. Heuristic reasoning would lead one to a conclusion opposite that posited by mainstream medicine. As stated, IgM antibodies are seen in early and therefore acute infection with Lyme organisms. The persistence of IgMantibodies would suggest the immune system is "chronically" seeing Borrelia as an acute--new infection. IgG antibodies, seen in late infections with other organisms, are frequently used as a measure of immunity. Studies which select chronic Lyme patients with IgG responses may be inherently biased--ommiting the most common patient type. Patient selection for studies has been difficult because of patient recruitment limitations.


    http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/12/igm-question-is-it-chronic-lyme-disease.html

    Probiotics are an important part of my Lyme multiple-antibiotic regime. I take VSL #3 and S. Boulardii every day just before bed. I've also heard of people having good luck with Candistroy for yeast. It's just too bad that you have to buy the probiotics along with that product because I believe other products are better in that regard. But it's not too expensive overall.
  6. erist

    erist

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    Well, my LLMD thinks that this is about as positive a result as you can get in the Lyme world, since I am even positive by CDC standards. I am skeptical of antibiotic therapy (and even more skeptical of rife machine therapy) but also know that nothing else has really touched the fatigue for the past decade or so. I got my methylation test results back and they were consistent with a methylation block as well, so I will try that. Bayesian statistics wise, there must be a fair amount of false positives out there and I am worried I am one of them, but I also trust this doctor, despite an affinity for bit of the "woo" (applied kinesiology, electromedicine, etc) She is one of the most well known and well respected CFIDS and LLMDs around and anything I have ever brought up she has rattled off 10 other papers on the same thing that I hadn't heard of so I know she is extremely well read and up to date on current CFIDS science...

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