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Lyme gender study

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by msf, May 30, 2016.

  1. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27230991

    Ah women, always trying to get Lyme treatment when they don´t really need it...

    P.S. I am being sarcastic. If someone can access it, it would be good to see how messed up this study actually was.
     
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  2. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Wormser.
     
  3. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Ah, so that's what all the money they were giving him was for. And to think we doubted him ...
     
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  4. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Broads, huh? Can't live with 'em, can't get research grants without 'em ....
     
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  5. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    I cannot figure these people out.

    I try, but it just isn't happening.

    Sometimes I chalk it up to money. Sometimes to legacy concerns. Sometimes to other stuff.

    But when I see them take the stands they do, it just leaves me dumbfounded.

    Could this not suggest at least a hint of misogyny to some people? How is attempting to compare the rate of female-to-male follow-ups not a red herring?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
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  6. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    Well- it really depends on what they conclude from it (haven't read full paper, just abstract). If they're trying to imply women are hysterical wussies, then yeah, it's misogynistic.

    If the finding is legitimite- then it should be addressed that there is a pretty big variable that's uncontrolled for- the immune system. Women have more complex and dynamic immune systems than men and that would need to be followed up and explored as a possible contributing factor to the difference. I believe many autoimmune diseases have a disproportionate gender ratio, so I don't see why this type of effect couldn't come into play with a serious infection that is known to become chronic.

    So- depending on where they try to go with this- and whether they address the obvious physical variables- it could be good or bad.

    Then again, I've seen papers (from other researchers) that have concluded that birth control users who take antibiotics and get pregnant are just forgetful when they're not feeling well. So my hopes are not high!
     
  7. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    "Women have more complex and dynamic immune systems than men..."

    Quite a statement.
     
  8. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    I meant with the menstrual cycle-- I should have probably specified pre-menopausal women. I'm not really an expert on this by any means but as I understand it one of purposes of progesterone is to suppress parts of the immune system to be able to sustain pregnancy. It's a complex system with a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of studies showing the variation in various parts of the immune system during the course of the menstrual cycle. I didn't mean for this to be a controversial statement! :)

    Whether this has anything to do with Lyme or not, I have no idea, only that it might be worth studying by someone who knows what they're doing, if indeed there is a gender difference in the course of illness.
     
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  9. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Nods. Understood.

    I see this study a little different. I look at it something kinda related to the old joke, "Still beating your wife?" Simply by posing the question, there is an indictment rendered. Afterall, we are speaking to an infectious disease, not an autoimmune disorder.
     
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  10. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

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    It may very well be that, which would be disappointing.

    I guess where I'm coming from, is I believe at this point that there is a possibility that I developed a chronic infection (possibly even Lyme or a co-infection, or something else entirely) during the use of continuous birth control pills. Or maybe it's autoimmune. I'm still trying to figure this out six years into my illness. There is just not good research on this kind of possibility and I wish there was!
     
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  11. out2lunch

    out2lunch Senior Member

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    There has been a very well established connection between fibromyalgia and endometriosis. And long-term use of BC pills is similar to the constant estrogen barrage that endo patients suffer from. Many women, such as myself, struggled with endo issues for years before developing fibro. Especially if the endo resulted in early surgical menopause via hysterectomy, which was the case for me.

    I'll never forget having lunch at the 2002 CFS conference near LAX with nine other women sitting at the table. We were all sharing our diagnoses, treatment issues, etc. Then came the jaw-dropping moment: out of the 10 women at that table, all of us had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, with eight of us having had hysterectomies before the age of 30 for… endometriosis! Eight out of ten!!

    You can't tell me there isn't a connection between hormones and these chronic long-term diseases!

    And shame on any researcher at this point trying to play the hysteria card! :thumbdown:
     
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  12. valentinelynx

    valentinelynx Senior Member

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    You can access it through sci-hub.ac: here.

    It is currently a "manuscript accepted for publication" an unedited .pdf.
    Don't know whey they were in such a hurry to make available a study with no findings:

    "Among the 71 males and 57 females able to be followed-up for 11-20 years, there were no significant differences in baseline symptoms, rate of seroreactivity to Borrelia burgdorferi, or in frequency of post-treatment symptoms. Females, however, were significantly more likely than males to return for follow-up visits (p=0.0003)."

    However, there are some interesting data points: 10-12% (7 each of males and females) had PTLDS and of those, 57% (4 men, 4 women) had symptoms for more than 11 years. These are tiny numbers to study, but certainly goes against the theory that most people with PTLDS get better over a year or two.
     
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