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Lowering over methylation without niacin?? Please help!!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Irwin, Dec 2, 2015.

  1. Irwin

    Irwin

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    Weeks ago I entered in a hell, paranoia, panic attacks etc due excess of methyl supplements. THIS IS THE WORST THING I HAD IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. I was almost going to commit some madness... you know...
    I'm better now, used niacin last week, paranoia and panic attacks gone... but mild depression and anxiety still remaining from excess of methyl groups floating around. I hadn't anxiety neither mild depression before these uses.


    The big problem is: after 4 days of niacin use (100mg/day) I started to pee a lot, very thirst and I was smelling like soap (probably due ketones). This is pre diabetes symptoms. I stopped to use niacin but I developed a pain in the right side of my left rib, probably in the pancreas?

    I know, you'll say "ahh I use 500mg niacin with no problems". Nobody is equal! I AWAYS felt huge effects even with 25mg niacin. Diabetes runs in my family, so probably I have the genes!!

    I need to lower my methylation, BUT I CAN'T USE NIACIN AGAIN. Seriously.
    I can use hydrob12, folic acid (i haven't MTHFR mutations). I just don't know if these things lower my methylation.

    Seriously, I need help.
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    @Irwin
    spinning the mehtylation cycle too fast might be the cause of your anxiety but keep in mind that you might just be sensitive to some of the supplements, such as folate which is the usual culprit, or methyl-B12 to a lesser degree. Hydroxy-B12 is usually less strong, in fact it does nothing for me.

    My first goto supplement for over-the-top anxiety is Ashwagandha, 300mg one or two times a day. This works much better than niacin/niacinamide for me:
    http://examine.com/supplements/ashwagandha/

    Also very useful Valerian root (300-600mg), Passion Flower (500mg) and GABA (250-500mg).

    You could also mix them together for a stronger effect, as they are found combined in certain herbal remedies but I am not a fan of mixing too much stuff with the same effects.

    Finally I am not a doctor, so you should probably consult with your physician to make sure any of these is not interacting with other medications you're taking.

    Good luck
     
  5. Irwin

    Irwin

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    "IMPORTANT!! Increased methylation may cause – and does cause – neurological symptoms."
    Interesting, I'm also having a few tremors. Damn, I need to act fast, these excess are causing neurological symptoms damage!

    The only thing I read to remove excess is niacin.
     
  6. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Tremors like what? Muscle spasms are a sign of low Potassium if that's what it is. You are not going to do any permanent damage in the short run. I know your body is causing you anxiety right now but the extra stress you don't need. You will get back to feeling better soon. Know that!
     
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  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Niacin might be impairing your insulin sensitivity
    Thiamine might help to correct that (+magnesium + potassium) LOW DOSES
    Personally I never take more than 20mg of B1 on a single day
    Activated B1 (Benfo) cause me horrible hypoglycemia, just like Taurine does.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  8. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    Was researching Phase-2 liver detox today and this article mentions cofactors for B1:

     
  9. Irwin

    Irwin

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    Just can't maintain my hand plane without tremors

    Hey, someone knows if there is something like niacin that USES SAM-E? Nothing more in this world?
     
  10. Irwin

    Irwin

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    Went to a doctor today... he doesn't knew about niacin quenching methyl groups.
    He thought this doesn't exist and I freaked out.

    I started to ask myself: I'm having placebo effect, I'm nuts?
    Is all true that niacin breaks down sam-e? wow, I totally freaked out. I'm not in the best mind conditions, and I started to ask if all this is true...
     
  11. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Off topic but I just started taking this for my annoying heart beat (BP is fine). Just took 2000 mgs. As an experiment. Was only planning on taking as needed at nights. What are signs of hypoglycemia? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2015
  12. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Ben Lynch wrote a couple of articles on methylfolate side effects:
    http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/
    http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/

    Curcumin looks like the next thing to try after niacin. You can sort of work your way down the list and see what works best for you.

    In the second article I linked Ben Lynch mentions the following symptoms for electrolytes deficiency which seem to track well with what you're reporting:

    So you could also try some potassium alone or magnesium + potassium.
     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    From diabetes.org
     
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  14. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Gondwanaland likes this.
  15. telochian

    telochian

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    Personally, I find that b1 and b2 drive methylation infinitely harder when folate and b12 are in place (deadlock quartet).

    Ashwaghanda is great, you can also use it in combination with Ginko, Gotu Kola or Bacopa to create the so called adaptogen stack. I would assume that this increases Gaba and therefore balances some of the other more stimulating neurotransmitters like Seratonin, norephedrine which seem to go through the roof when methylating hard and cause a lot of anxiety etc. Lot's of people over at longecity are looking into adaptogen stacks.

    Personally I find b6 (p5p) to work for me, perhaps even better than niacin at times.

    I tend to side with Freddd on these issues, while uncomfortable, these symptoms usually mean it's working. Aside from potassium deficiency which needs to be addressed immediately, the other "startup" symptoms should fade.
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    BTW for those with hypoglycemia symptoms, potassium will worsen the problem by increasing even more insulin sensitivity and acidosis. Alkalize the urine is very important with a form of magnesium that doesn't cause even more insulin sensitivity like Mg Glycinate (avoid this one). Sodium bicarbonate whole body and/or foot baths are very relieving.
     
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  17. telochian

    telochian

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    Given that many of the problems associated with overmethylation are due to neurotransmitters going into over drive (seratonin, norepinephrine) maybe we should be looking to balance neurotransmitters as part of the treatment protocol. From what I have read, neurotransmitters affect one another, ie when seratonin and norepinephrine are high, it will reduce GABA and acetylcholine levels etc. Personally, anxiety and fogginess are the two most difficult things to deal with when trying to improve methylation.

    Not sure if this has been discussed previously, but given that solutions to overmethylation or startup symptoms seem to be limited, it may be worth looking into. As I said in another recent thread, I've had a lot of success with choline supplementation and Ashwagandha and other GABA supplements.
     
  18. sweets

    sweets

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    I joined Pheonix Rising and waited an hour ago just to answer this! Normally I just read through the threads.

    Actual overmethylation is when the histamine levels drop too low. It is called histapenia. Histamine is a hormone that needs to be in balance like all other hormones. So, to answer your question, search foods that raise histamine levels. Also search foods that lower histamine levels and avoid those. I cannot post any links until after I've posted 5 times or else I would lead you further into what you're looking for. Meat is high in histamine and that's why some people do so well on low carb diets and some people do not (undermethylators). I am currently treating chronically low histamine levels along with using nutigenomics. I feel more level headed and am finally losing weight where years of trying new diets and protocols have failed me.

    If those things do not help you, you probably do not truly have overmethylation (low histamine) other than possibly taking too much methyl vitamins too fast. Hope this helps you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2015
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  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    For people who don't tolerate meat I think vitamin B6 is recommended
     
    sweets likes this.
  20. Irwin

    Irwin

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    Thank you for your answer!
    Only food doesn't help me. Niacin is helping me, but not 100%.

    I'm also feeling gut contractions all the time, a bit of constipation and much less hungry than before I induced this state. I think my ability to digest foods is impaired, not the gut but all my system now. I can't handle stress, seriously, I almost faint no matter what kind of stress happen. This is why I'm in my home and don't get off anymore.

    Before I used TMG, I was dealing with a brain fog caused by my last use of methyl folate + hydroxocobalamin. I used low dose of b12, maybe I induced a b12 deficiency also, but this a month ago. I'll try just to use hydroxocobalamin now, need to stop niacin becaus it's hurting a lot my pancreas and thyroid.
     

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