1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Nitric oxide and its possible implication in ME/CFS (Part 1 of 2)
Andrew Gladman explores the current and historic hypotheses relating to nitric oxide problems in ME/CFS. Part 1 of a 2-part series puts nitric oxide under the microscope and explores what it is, what it does and why it is so frequently discussed in the world of ME/CFS. Part 1 focuses...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Low Vitamin D Levels Even With Supplementation (5000 iu)

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Lotus97, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    I've been taking over 5000 iu vitamin D, but my Vitamin D Hydroxy 25 was only 30.2 ng/mL. When I've been tested in the past my vitamin D levels were higher so I don't know what's going on.

    I'd like to know what the reasons as to why my vitamin D could be low. There was some mention about possible Th1/Th2 imbalances as a cause. Also some information about Lyme disease, mycoplasma, and autoimmune conditions being responsible for vitamin D deficiency. I do have Lyme so this another possibility.

    There were some articles about certain labs' vitamin D tests being inaccurate, but I don't know if my doctor's office used the same lab or not.
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/33516
     
  2. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,113
    Likes:
    960
    Concord, NH
    Do you take a gelatin form or powdered capsules? You should take it with fat.

    GG
     
  3. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes:
    958
    US
    Do you get enough vitamin K2 with it?
     
  4. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    I take it in the gel cap and with a fat containing meal. I'm pretty sure I was doing the same thing the previous times when I tested higher. Is the gel cap better than than powdered capsules? It seems to be more expensive than powdered capsules
    I take around 55 mcg Mk-7 and 3-4 mg Mk-4. Does vitamin K2 have anything to do with vitamin D levels, or are you just asking to make sure I don't get hypercalcemia?
     
  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

    Messages:
    2,585
    Likes:
    1,931
    Tundras of Europa
    Perhaps you're not absorbing it well? Gut dysbiosis?
     
  6. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes:
    212
    USA
    Hi Lotus;
    I'm not sure if you're still taking zinc, but I thought I'd plant a good article about it for you.

    The administration of both Zn or vitamin D3 produced a significant increase in bone ALP activity and DNA content, and the effect of vitamin D3 was synergistically enhanced by the simultaneous treatment with Zn.11 The receptors for 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 were shown to have two Zn-finger structures at the site of interaction with DNA.12 One possible function of Zn is to potentiate the interaction of the 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3-receptor complex with DNA.

    http://www.gghjournal.com/volume22/1/featureArticle.cfm
     
  7. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

    Messages:
    361
    Likes:
    206
    Hi, Lotus. My nutritionist recommended liquid D3 for good absorption. I take Xymogen Liquid D3. Each drop is 1000 IU.

    I keep it in the fridge, and it lasts over a year. I do 5 drops a day. My D levels are a good level now.

    Something I like about this supplement is that it is so inexpensive because it lasts so long. Amazon carries it.
     
  8. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    After starting and stopping probiotics a few times I realized they were causing depression most likely due to a herx based on similar experiences with supplements with antibacterial/microbiol/fungal/viral properties. I haven't been taking probiotics which I suppose is making things worse, but the depression is intolerable and there seems to be no end in sight since the depression lasted over a month before I finally stopped taking the supplements.
     
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    I was taking zinc, but I took vitamin D with my first meal and zinc later in the day. Would that make a difference?
     
  10. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

    Messages:
    583
    Likes:
    212
    USA
    I don't think that time of day would make a difference in this situation. But I wonder if, say zinc is the missing cofactor, it may take some months to potentiate the vitamin D receptors. I've been taking zinc daily for a little over a year now, so I'll see about getting vitamin D levels measured. I haven't been taking D, ( side-effects), but I'm curious to see if this works.

    I eat many animal fats, been going outside more, and I've tried taking vitamin D cofactors for years, but zinc has been too low in my diet.

    I'll report back here after I test and get the results.

    How long have you been supplementing zinc?
     
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    7,262
    Likes:
    6,316
    Albuquerque
    Lotus97

    What about your Vit D 1,25? Has that been tested? It is a good idea to test it if you are supplementing at that level.

    Sushi
     
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    My doctor doesn't seem to have a problem with the standard tests, but she usually doesn't feel the need to go any further. Once I tell her that I've been supplementing with 5000-6000 iu maybe she'll get on board. I just learned about Vit D 1,25 yesterday so maybe it's good I had the test score I did or I never would have done research on vitamin D. It almost seems like I might want to lower my dose rather than raise it until I know more information. For anyone following this thread who wants to learn more about the difference between Vitamin D 1,25 and Vitamin D 25 hydroxy, Ema just recommended these two articles to read
    http://arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/articles/immune_system_dysfunction.html

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/08/vitamin-d-dysregulation-in-chronic-infectious-diseases/
     
  13. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,113
    Likes:
    960
    Concord, NH
    I'm not sure if the gel cap is better than powdered as long as you take it with some fats. I didn ot realize that when I first started supplementing, and then read it somewhere, and changed the type and have since taken powdered capsules again, and my levels are plenty high!

    GG
     
  14. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes:
    423
    United States
    So I got my lab back. Vitamin D 1,25 dihydroxy was 34 and I mentioned earlier that my 25 hydroxy was 30.2 even though I'm taking almost 6000 iu of vitamin D. I don't think it's a problem with the brand. Not only am I pretty sure that I was taking the same brand last year when I tested higher, but I found this customer review:
    Maybe it is an absorption problem, but I seem to absorb my Prozac just fine. I've considered chewing up the gelcap before swallowing in case the problem is that it isn't dissolving quick enough to be absorbed, but then if it does work I'm not sure I should increase my dose. If I thought my doctor was willing to test my vitamin D regularly maybe I would try a lot of different things, but I'm not sure what to do. I had a hard time convincing my doctor to test my vitamin D 1, 25 dihydroxy. She didn't think there was anything wrong with 30.2 vit d 25 hydroxy and didn't seem to understand why the other vitamin D test was necessary.
     
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    7,262
    Likes:
    6,316
    Albuquerque
    Lotus97

    Do you know the status of your Vit D receptors?

    Sushi
     
  16. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

    Messages:
    147
    Likes:
    96
    NW US
    I'm actually curious about your Vitamin D binding protein (GC) and enzyme SNPs, since those are thought to affect 25(OH)D serum levels:

    GC:
    rs4588 (variant is A)
    rs7041 (variant is G)
    rs2282679 (variant is C)

    NADSYN1:
    rs3829251 (variant is A)

    CYP2R1:
    rs2060793 (variant is A)
    rs1993116 (variant is A)

    I have homozygous variants on two of the GC SNPs and am heterozygous on NADSYN1. My 25(OH) serum levels are low and I don't tolerate D3 supplements at all, they make me feel quite ill. I'm wondering if it is because I'm not able to bind it well, though I would think what I couldn't bind wouldn't absorb since it is fat soluble? I'm not sure how the biochemistry works.

    Some studies that are related (the third one is colorectal cancer patients, but still might be interesting):
    http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/13/2739.full
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23556437
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23456391
     
  17. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

    Messages:
    703
    Likes:
    769
    Lotus,

    It's been said already here but make sure you have the proper co-factors for Vitamin D absorption.

    Magnesium may help vitamin D by helping your body activate vitamin D into a form your body can use, though it’s not known how much is ideal or if not getting enough magnesium harms your ability to fully make activated vitamin D. Also, magnesium is important in helping vitamin D to maintain calcium in the body and is essential for bone health.

    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-and-other-vitamins-and-minerals/
     
  18. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    4,113
    Likes:
    960
    Concord, NH
    The link mentions Vitamin K also, which I read about often in Life Extension.

    GG
     
  19. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

    Messages:
    298
    Likes:
    375
    Iowa
    I'm very interested in this as I have had simliar issues with getting my D levels high enough.

    GC:
    rs4588 (variant is A) - heterozygous
    rs7041 (variant is G) - heterozygous
    rs2282679 (variant is C) - heterozygous

    NADSYN1:
    rs3829251 (variant is A) - don't have

    CYP2R1:
    rs2060793 (variant is A) - heterozygous
    rs1993116 (variant is A) - heterozygous

    Is there any knowledge about which of these impact it the most? Is there anything that helps with getting around these?

    My doc wants me starting vitamin d3 drops, which I will eventually get to; just have other supplements I want to get started on first. I haven't found a magnesium supplement I tolerate yet, but do take epsom salt baths hoping to get it that way... immensely helpful for managing my chronic pain.
     
  20. PDXhausted

    PDXhausted Senior Member

    Messages:
    147
    Likes:
    96
    NW US
    Penny- I don't think we really know all the implications or causes of it yet, since this research is relatively new. I just think it's interesting that they are finding certain SNPs may be correlated to some people having lower levels of D, and possibly even to some people still having lower levels of D after supplementation. I think the clinical recommendation is still to supplement with D, and as other people mentioned to make sure to get the cofactors.

    Though it is frustrating when you can't tolerate the D3 or some of the cofactors (I have issues with magnesium as well). I have yet to find a clinician that acknowledges that this is an issue. Usually their recommendation to me is just to "try harder" :)

    Given the SNPs that you have, I'd be curious to know how you do with the vitamin D supplements and if you're able to tolerate them or notice a difference in your symptoms.

    Edited to add: I forgot to mention, wikipedia has a pathway map that shows how vitamin D is processed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#Interactive_pathway_map
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page