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Low Stomach Acid and High Uric Acid

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Peyt, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Hello All,
    I have been suffering from digestion problems (specifically SIBO) for over 20 years.

    After trying many remedies (both conventional medicine and alternative medicine) and going to at least 5 doctors with no luck, I have noticed that when I take something that increases my stomach acid(such as HCI , vinigar, lemon juice or something acidic) my meal digestion improves and all my digestion symptoms such as bloating, gas, hickups, gerd literary disappears! The problem is, within a couple of days, I start getting this nasty headache which usually starts midly and builds up in a course of 3-4 hours and won't go away until I take some Tylonal and go to sleep.

    I have discussed this issue (side effect of taking acidic agents with food) with a few doctors none of which have been able to come up with a solution..

    Tonight, I was looking at my blood work, and noticed my Uric Acid is pretty high (7.9 / I am a male 43years old)
    So Here is the question I have:
    Could it be possible that the acidic supplements I take improve my digestion but later built up the Uric Acid levels to a high level and that causes headaches?
    And if yes, any suggestions as to how this can be fixed? I mean how can I increase stomach acid and at the same time lower Uric Acid?? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Happy Thanks Giving!
    Thanks so much
    Peyt
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Magnesium supplementation lowers uric acid. It has to be taken away from meals (2 hours apart).
     
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  3. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    @Peyt
    I don't know if this advice will be helpful but Caledonia started a new thread linking to a new article by Ben Lynch.
    Although he is discussing methyfolate the same could apply to any supplement I think.

    The gist of the article is that in using supplements to correct a problem we continue to use them even after we feel good.
    He suggests when you feel good that's the time to pull back from possible over use.

    Perhaps pulsing with vinegar (use 2 days/skip two days) or supplementing continuously but less often (once or twice a week)
    or simply stopping when you feel good and start use again when you feel the need.

    Perhaps that might prevent build up of uric acid and any undesirable symptoms.
     
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  4. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Gondwanaland, that totally makes sense why ever since I started using Magnesium at nights (I take a tea spoon of Natural Calm) I feel much better.... I also tried drinking Tart Cherry Juice but in my case, as I mentioned I have SIBO and I can not digest Cherries so I can't use it. But I have no side effects to Magnesium.


    Snowdrop,
    I don't think what Dr. Lynch says applies to me. I mean, as soon as I stop taking HCI or vinegar or something acidic with my meals the digestion problems return, so it's pretty clear that my stomach is not making sufficient acid. He is talking about Methylfolate and that's different. When the Methylation cycle comes to balance it can then be maintained with a much smaller dose... Here we are talking about low stomach acid and poor digestion... anyways, I have stopped supplementing all the times(not by choice) and the problem returns immediately! Anyways, I am looking for a correlation between Uric Acid and Stomach Acid in this thread because if true that makes alot of sense in why it fixes one thing and makes another thing worst. And I am sure there are others who suffer from it.
     
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  5. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Gondwanalang,
    I just did a google search for supplements that remove uric acid, and 2 of the main supplements recommended are Magnesium Citrate (which I am using) and Sodium Bicarbonate among a few others.... well interestingly enough Magnesium Citrate and Sodium Bicarbonate are also recommended for heartburns and excess stomach acid... well it all makes sense why it helps one thing and hurts another for me.... Now I am wondering if I take HCL with my meals and let it digest well and then take mag/sodium a few hours later I can have the best of both worlds??

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_5903307_supplements-remove-uric-acid.html
     
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  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    My high uric acid lead me to salicylate intolerance. I reversed it with a couple of sodium bicarbonate baths and with aggressive magnesium (oxide) supplementation (3x daily away from meals).
     
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  7. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Wow, that's amazing... may I ask what your levels were before and after?
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I am not quite sure why you are worried by the high uric acid level. It would not as far as I know give any symptoms unless you get gout - in the form of acute pain in a toe or ankle. Various organic acids can compete with uric acid for excretion but that would only be relevant over a long period I think.

    If you have a high uric acid level the most important question is whether your blood pressure is raised - there is a link. If so blood pressure control may be advisable. Uric acid levels can be brought down by losing weight if overweight, and by reducing foods with high nuclear content (uric acid comes from nucleic acid) and alcohol if used - which affects uric acid excretion through lactate. But in general terms unless you have gout uric acid is not a big issue - aassociated risk from any overweight or alcohol is more important.
     
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  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I haven't closely tracked my levels.
    One year ago it was 5.8 (2.4 - 5.7 mg/dL), then last June I became salicylate intolerant and it seemed there were glass shatters between my toe bones. I had it measured after 1.5 months of Mg supplementation and it was 5.

    Uric acid is actually an important antioxidant.

    Perhaps this is how it interacts with salicylates...
     
    Peyt likes this.
  10. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    I am concerned because I want to be able to take HCI with my meals but I get a headache after a couple of days of usage of HCI.(as explained in my original post) and have to stop taking it and I don't want to stop because it helps my digestion so much!

    And again, My thoughts were , if my uric acid is already on the high side and it shows in my blood test, and then when i take an acidic supplement (which as I said is extremely helpful in my digestion and literary wipes out all my digestion issues) could it be that the acidic supplement is causing the uric acid to go up even higher? and cause headaches? If yes, that's a great correlation that I have discovered about my body and so I knowing that information I can then take some alkalizing supplements after a few hours of eating to prevent that.

    Another possibility that I was thinking about is perhaps my pancreas is not secreting the bicarbonates that it is suppose to be secreting and thus the PH of the food that has become acidic in the stomach using the HCI is not properly changing to a higher PH... and this is why magnesium and perhaps Sodium bicarbonate(which I am about to try) could help?...
     
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  11. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    I forgot to say, my uric acid levels were at 7.9 (normal range for male is 2.6-7.2) prior to usage of HCI or vinigar with food... I have not tested them since .... I guess another way to find out is to measure my uric acid now to see if it's gone any higher with usage of HCI... but the problem is due to headaches I can not stay on HCI for long.
     
  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Dear Peyt,
    I don't think HCl will have any effect on uric acid. The effect of things like lactate has nothing to do with acidity or alkalinity. It is the lactate ion which competes - it is in equilibrium in the blood with both hydrogen and sodium ions (i.e. it is neither 'lactic acid' (acid) or 'sodium lactate (base)). I think you are oversimplifying the chemistry - it does not work like that. I see no reason for uric acid to produce headache. That may be something to do with the HCi itself.

    I don't think adding sodium bicarbonate would be any use because it will instantly react with the HCl in the stomach and produce carbon dioxide that you will burp up. To be honest I don't think you can influence digestion this sort of way. The chemistry does not work in that simple way. I have never heard of anyone drinking HCl but I would have expected to make you feel ill.
     
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  13. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Salicylates interact with urate in two different ways but at moderate dose this is what they do and can cause gout (crystals in the toe joints).
     
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  14. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    Drink HCI?
    The HCI sold in the market is not in a form of liquid. It's either tablet or capsule. It's usually Betaine Hydrochloric Acid.
     
  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Vinegar (and Lemon juice) are high in HCl.

    One thing I did before loading up magnesium and taking bicarb baths was measuring my urine pH in the morning at home. It was 4.5. Then after my 1st bath and mag supplementation it was 6.5 in the following morning. I don't mesure my pH with a consistent frequency. But all lab measurements I had in the past several years were always 5. A reading of 6.5 was something to celebrate. Main symptoms that were gone with the low pH were frequent, high volume urination, insomnia/poor sleep, muscle pain, breathlessness (and consequent depression), food intolerances (mainly salicylates). There were more improvements, I gotta read my journal, and got to write a blog post about it, b/c I feel that these two simple steps like bicarb baths and Mg supp can help a large number of people around here.
     
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  16. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I thought taking HCl sounded odd. Betaine HCl is not HCl, it is a zwitterion associated with a hydrogen ion and a chloride ion. In solution it will release hydrogen ions and make the solution acidic, but probably not very much. All I would have thought it would do is give your kidneys a bit more work to do in excreting chloride. I cannot think that it would have any significant effect on stomach pH and from what I can see on the net that has not been found. Anyway I think it is going to have nothing to do with uric acid unless the betaine part competes with urate in the kidney tubules.
     
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  17. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I don't like to sound picky but there is no HCl in vinegar or lemon juice. Hydrochloric acid is hydrochloric acid, acetic acid is acetic acid, citric acid is citric acid and apart from all being acids they are completely different.
     
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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Thanks for pointing that out!

    Perhaps I should have said they increase stomach HCl...
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/292143-what-foods-are-high-in-hydrochloric-acid/
     
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  19. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I think that website is just somebody's imagination. The trouble with all this stuff is that people just make things up because words sound similar. Any food will stimulate gastric secretion of hydrochloric acid. It has nothing whatever to do with the food being acid as far as I know. If I remember rightly from medschool the best thing to get your juices flowing is a Mars bar or something really greasy. (Not recommended because of the indigestion from the acid.) Radiologists do a think called a Mars bar barium meal where you look at the stomach once and then after a Mars bar. That is to do with motility rather than acid but I think the secretions come with it!
     
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  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I don't think that lemons or vinegar are a myth in relation to helping digestion and low/high stomach acidity.

    My gastroenterologist kept me for years on antacids due to GERD. Dietary intervention proved itself more effective. Plus my hematologist told me that patients with autoimmune conditions have chronically LOW stomach acid and therefore impaired mineral and vitamin (esp. B12) absorption and that taking antacids for so long has been detrimental on my health. Of course my endocrinologist knows nothing about it.

    IME as a patient, some foods will cause GERD whether by stimulating or impairing HCl secretion.

    My point is that biochemistry is one thing in theory and another in practice, since people react very differently to a same intervention.
     
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  21. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    I am sure that is right. But my point was that biochemistry needs to be biochemistry rather than just muddling up words like 'acid' and HCl. If cider vinegar helps it is not because it does the same job as HCl. Acetic acid is too weak to do that. It is a bit like taking cod liver oil to 'oil' joints when the reason for taking cod liver oil is to provide vitamin D to help bones, not joints. The internet is a great thing but there is a lot of word muddling going on!
     

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