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Low nk function in lyme?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by heapsreal, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thought i would ask as i cant find any info on low nk function in lyme disease similar in cfsme.

    I understand lyme have a low cd57 but is low nk function found in lyme?

    Any personal examples as well as studies?

    Cheers.
     
  2. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I've been diagnosed with chronic lyme disease and have high NK cell function (perforin expression) with low NK cell count.
    According to my LLMD that's because the NK cells have migrated to tissues where they are actively fighting pathogens.

    My CD57 is 61, that's borderline low.

    My NKC function and count, as well as CD57 have not changed in two years time. Treatment had no influence on the numbers.
     
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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thanks , interesting . I just wonder if the nk function testing klimas does as well as griffith university do, might be a way to distinguish between lyme and cfsme, as its generally low in cfsme but have read a few lyme people have normal function but low nk cd57 counts.
     
  4. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    yes, it is sometimes used. But personally I find it pretty unremarkable for actual results. Some people will have Lyme or other chronic health issues and have a higher NK cell count, while others will be perfectly healthy and asymptomatic with lower NK cell counts.

    Edit* sorry I got it confused with Low NK CD57 which is what I meant.
     
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  5. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    My situation is exactly the same as Thinktanks re NK cells - expression (perforin) massively increased, CD57 borderline low.
     
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  6. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    SOC started a thread that touches on this a while back - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/low-cdxx-cell-numbers.40389/

    I keep wondering if CD56/7 numbers aren't perhaps a possible route to a differential criterion for ME v lyme. There seem to be some patterns there (at least if you're looking at long-term ME sufferers, excluding the < 3 years group that Lipkin and Hornig seemed to find had a different, hyped-up immune state)
     
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  7. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    I am 2T positive for Lyme. My CD57 values started off low - around 40 if I recall? But have steadily crept up after years of treatment. That improvement in my CD57 numbers is not reflected in my symptoms.

    As for my NK Cell function, it is low: 5, where in range is 8-170
     
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  8. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Never had CD57 checked but my NK function is low; 3. I have bartonella and M.E.
     
  9. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member

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    My CD57 was 43 and I have an equivocal positive ELISA for Lyme. From memory, you can get the CD57 test bulkbilled in Australia as long as it's sent to a lab in Sydney I think.

    I don't think I've had my NK function tested. Is this easily done in Australia?
     
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  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Is there a time frame that it has to be tested by?
    I think generally nk function testing has to be done within a time frame of hours
     
  11. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    If I recall correctly, I was told it had to be drawn and processed within 30 hours, @heapsreal.
     
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  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Do you remember which lab?
     
  13. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Quest. I believe through its Focus Diagnostics acquisition, but not 100% sure my memory is right about that. It was expensive, too, I think like close to $500. My insurance wouldn't cover it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
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  14. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    my CD57 went up with lyme treatment
     
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  15. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    When I send my blood (not all of it, only some of it :p) down to INIM for immune testing, if it's not there within 24 hrs of when it's drawn, they pitch it out as "ruined" for NK cell function testing and we have to start all over again (Darn FedEx!)
     
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  16. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    30 hours vs 24 hours: Only six hours difference. Three of those can be attributed to time zones. The other three to the inflight fed ex movie.

    So, they both are 24 hours more or less.

    That's ME algebra: Fucked up, and reeking of, and reeling from, brain inflammation. :ill:
     
  17. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Yeah, I figured they were leaving room for slop on either end. After all, they can't always drop what they're doing the moment a sample comes in, so they have to allow several hours on their end to get things set up once a sample rolls in. Then, as you say, they are probably taking into consideration that some samples will be coming from different time zones. I'd say the 24 and 30 hr time limits are effectively the same.
     
  18. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, it is time-sensitive, and I learned the hard way that it may be advisable to make sure the phlebotomist knows the constraints.

    I had the blood draw done at my local GP, along with testing for all the normal viral suspects per my ME specialist. All the viral tests were completed, but not the NK Cell Function test as it was not received in a timely manner.

    I had to have it redone at a Quest Patient Center some 25 miles further away - and there I was told my insurance wouldn't guarantee they'd pay. That 25 miles alone might as well have been 2500; it made getting me there reliant on someone else, which I do not like.
     
  19. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    call or fax the lab and make sure they know what test you are coming in for....if possible, speak to supervisor. this NK cell function test is a big problem because it is rarely ordered and most phlebotomists don't know how to process it. you also have to write on the requisition form, which lab they need to send it to for testing.

    once i went all the way to buffalo for the test but it couldn't be done before the day's pick up because the phlebotomist couldn't figure things out. what a nightmare. the blood has to be at the final location within 24 hours
     
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  20. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    INIM now sends a kit with tubes, full instructions, and a pre-addressed FedEx Overnight bag all included. That way all you need to do is get the draw at the right time of day and you can take the package to FedEx yourself to make sure it goes out. In the past when I've had to rely on the hospital lab to do it all correctly, they've failed dismally -- wrong tubes, delays getting it out, mis-addressing the package. With the kit, FedEx can still mess you up by not delivering the overnight package overnight (they did that to me last week :mad:), but at least you don't have to rely on the lab to do anything other than draw the blood and spin it down. That they can do pretty reliably.
     
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