The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
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Low NK CD57 in the abscence of Lyme

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by bmoberg337, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. bmoberg337

    bmoberg337

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    Hi all,

    I was wondering if any patients on this forum have experience with a low NK CD57 lab result in the abscence of chronic lyme?

    I am currently infected with 4 co-infections but consistently test negative for lyme via your standard run of the mill PCR's and Igenex PCR and western blot.

    Published articles and talk on this forum among others offers inconsistent direction as to what actually influences the CD57 count.
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    I've wondered about CD57 count as well. I'm negative for lyme and have a CD57 absolute count towards the bottom end of the reference range, 81 /uL (60-360).
     
  3. Blue

    Blue

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    Hi, my CD57 is very low as well - between 12 and 22.(60 - 360). I am negative for lyme as well but following darkfield microscopy positive for Bartonella and Babesia. (I am very unsure how reliable this darkfield test is, but at least have a positive IgG for Bartonella, so, who knows...)

    I asked many physicians about the CD57 and they all seemed to interpret this test differently. Some said, the CD57 could be supressed by any infection, including viruses.

    So it seems to be unclear if this test is really related to lyme only.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  4. vamah

    vamah Senior Member

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    My understanding is that it is frequently corelated with lyme, but not always. I read that hhv6 can lower cd57 also. This is the case with me where I tested negative for lyme but had very high hhv6 titer.
     
  5. bmoberg337

    bmoberg337

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I have read the same thing about CD57 and its sensitivity to other infections and viruses. In my case I know I have no other active infections as determined from several virus panels.

    However my CD57 is currently at 7 so I'm hoping this is being driven by the bartonella. At least in that case I would only have to clear up the co-infections and not lyme, but this maybe wishful thinking.
     
  6. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Yeah it could definitely be viral related. I have an ongoing echovirus 30 infection.
     
  7. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    The CD 57 is a NK cell, and so may be affected by factors or pathogens other than Lyme. If you are at all concerned Lyme may be the cause of the low CD 57 values, despite the negative outcomes on what I assume were ELISA and WB, and you mention PCR...Well, you may wish to ask for a C6 Peptide test which is fairly specific to Borrelia. In the absence of a direct culture test, the C6 is a good value to turn to precisely because of its specificity.
     
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Is a low CD57 only indicative of a current infection?
    It isn't seen for any other reason like autoimmune, immune system dysfunction etc.?

    To the people who have a low count, what are your symptoms and how did the illness start?

    Does everyone with cfs have a low level?

    Are low levels seen in any conditions other than lyme and cfs?
    Other autoimmune disease for example?

    Lastly is there any way to treat the low level and if so have their symptoms improved with the raising levels?

    If we could answer these questions we may be able to help at least a subset of people
     
  9. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    When I researched this before it became clear that CD57 levels had not been compared accross diseases, so, while it is nice to have a test result that shows something, it is not clear what it really means.

    The Lyme doctor believed that it, plus symptoms, plus confections, meant Lyme. The infectious disease doctor who is very experienced with both Lyme and ME/CFS, believed it was meaningless.

    Beware of treating coinfectins with long term antibiotics. My son developed amnesia, PEM, paralysis, etc. from doing so. I wish we had seen the ID doc first.
     
  10. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    I have two coinfections but not enough positive bands for Borrellia. I also have low CD57 (55).
     
  11. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    All diagnostic tests - short of a positive culture - are supportive only. None is definitive. The utility of CD 57 as a stand alone diagnostic is open to debate. But as a contributor towards the diagnostic effort, it may play a role. The thing is, most tests may play a role. The trick is negotiating that interpretative art of knowing which values are meaningful, and how to prioritize. Even prioritization may vary based on circumstance.

    For instance, what is meant by "in the absence of Lyme"? Does that mean CDC negative, but with certain bands positive? Are they Lyme specific bands? What about other tests like a PCR? Arguably better would be a C6 Peptide (although its utility becomes questionable the later into the infection the test is taken).

    I guess what I am struggling to say is what is now being legislated in some states requiring doctors to say: Namely, a negative lab for Lyme doesn't necessarily mean you don't have Lyme. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle, and a good Lyme clinician will employ as many pieces as possible to get as close to the truth as possible.

    The CD 57 test is considered by some clinicians as a puzzle piece with merit, but most wouldn't make a diagnosis on its voracity alone.
     
    wootah88, vamah and justy like this.
  12. bmoberg337

    bmoberg337

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    @duncan

    I was not aware of the C6 peptide test. I did some research on it and am seeing mixed results. The consensus seems to be that it has a high sensitivity in acute stages of Lyme but the sensitivity is comparable to other testing methods during late and chronic stages of Lyme. I will definitely ask my LLMD about this test the next time I see him.

    @knackers323

    My symptoms are:

    -POTS
    -Orthostatic Hypotension
    -PEM
    -Sleep Disturbances
    -Mood Disturbances
    -Joint pain (primarily knees and hips)
    -Muscle pain (primarily in the legs)
    -Extreme fatigue
    -Frequent sore throat early in the illness
    -shooting pain in my back
    -brain fog
    -speech problems
    -memory loss

    These symptoms occurred gradually with increasing severity and started 10 months ago.

    I remember reading somewhere(may have been on a forum) that CFS is associated with decreased CD56 as opposed to CD57. As others have mentioned there are several types of infections that can affect the NK CD57 level. In my case I eliminated the possibility of other infections through extensive lab testing (tons of tests run through my PCP and Viral panels done at Stanford). Therefore the probability of Lyme or Bartonella affecting my NK CD57 is high.

    When I say "in the absence of Lyme" I mean there was no definitive positive result from the tests I mentioned in my OP. So, no, there were no bands positive that are specific to Lyme. These test results were also reviewed by a well esteemed LLMD who believes they may become positive once the Bartonella is treated. There is some literature out there that suggests that Bartonella can turn off the bodies immune response to other pathogens and mimic many other diseases like Lyme. I'm hoping the Bartonella, along with the other co-infections I have, are causing my symptoms and not Lyme.
     
    Johannes Starke likes this.

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