low iron?

[outdamnspot]

I've been in my longest crash to date (approx. 5 weeks and counting). The only abnormal thing in my bloodwork was low iron -- I saw a new doctor who did a standard iron panel (4 tests .. not sure which exactly, probably Iron Sat, Ferritin, Iron and one other?). Anyway, she said everything was normal but my actual Iron value was 9 (range 10-30).

I regularly consume meat so thought it was a little odd, though she said the level would probably be different any day it was measured. I'm also aware of anemia of chronic disease whereby supplementing iron will make things worse; it does seem like my iron has been low since my CFS got severe though (I recall it being low when measured 2 years ago).

My sleep schedule is off, which means my eating schedule is off too. I wake up about 3pm and have one cup of coffee, then another cup at 5pm, then eat dinner (primary time I consume meat) with my family, then a salad with lots of fat at about 11pm, then eggs and peanut butter before bed at 3am (I'm on a Keto diet).

I wonder if coffee could be interfering with iron absorption at dinner?

I also had a period over Christmas where I actually felt relatively okay and was crashing less. The only additional thing I was doing was consuming chia seeds soaked in water before bed. Eventually, this led to a severe crash (I speculate due to the Magnesium, which I can't usually tolerate at all) and I felt better once I cut it out. I do wonder if the high iron levels in Chia were helping until that point? I have some but am a little bit hesistant to add it back in during a current crash.

 

[outdamnspot]

I also do daily coffee enemas, if that makes a difference ...

 

[outdamnspot]

One other thing I've wondered: on a Keto diet, it's instructed to replace electrolytes (Potassium, Sodium, Mg) as they're retained less. Supplemental Magnesium makes me worse, and so did the Chia seeds. I'm probably only getting 50-60mg a day from my diet, however, which seems low. Is it possible it might be safer or a better idea to try increasing through other food sources like pumpkin seeds, kale etc.?

 

[TenuousGrip]

According to this article, coffee enemas can cause anemia:

http://naturalhealthtechniques.com/basicsofhealthcoffee_enemas/

If they can cause anemia in an 'average' person in six months, they can probably cause anemia in particular people much more quickly than that.

Seems like one easy thing to try ....

 

[aquariusgirl]

I read that coffee can deplete B1 & a lot of us seem to struggle w/that. ...testing seems useless...lots of threads on here about that..,dr Lonsdale ...lipothiamine etc.

I think iron dysregulation is a big part of my illness but no one has a good handle on this but I personally would not supplement iron or copper.

 

[nanonug]

My sleep schedule is off, which means my eating schedule is off too. I wake up about 3pm and have one cup of coffee, then another cup at 5pm, then eat dinner (primary time I consume meat) with my family, then a salad with lots of fat at about 11pm, then eggs and peanut butter before bed at 3am (I'm on a Keto diet).

Forget iron, you need to fix your circadian rhythm, it is not doing you any favors. Can you get low dosage melatonin in Australia, 0.5mg or so, preferably extended/timed release?

 

[outdamnspot]

Forget iron, you need to fix your circadian rhythm, it is not doing you any favors. Can you get low dosage melatonin in Australia, 0.5mg or so, preferably extended/timed release?

Unfortunately my home environment makes maintaining an ordinary sleep schedule impossible

 

[alex3619]

Melatonin does not work if the circadian problem is severe, especially non-24 or the so far unnamed stage after that. Sometimes it has a temporary effect. It does nothing for me. Melatonin is also somewhat restricted here, though available with a script from a compounding pharmacy.

However there are pharmacological methods that might help if sleep problems are much less severe than non-24, and particularly in rotating sleep meds that are tolerated to avoid resistance. A doctor has to advise and oversee this kind of treatment though.

My iron has been on 10 for years, and this despite my being an haemochromatosis carrier and have ferritin anything up to 1000. I really do not know what is causing this. 10 is however just within the normal range, so despite it always being 10 no doctor has been interested in investigating.

I do not respond to melatonin at all.

 

[outdamnspot]

According to this article, coffee enemas can cause anemia:

http://naturalhealthtechniques.com/basicsofhealthcoffee_enemas/

If they can cause anemia in an 'average' person in six months, they can probably cause anemia in particular people much more quickly than that.

Seems like one easy thing to try ....

I did see that. Wouldn't iron stores be low too though?

 

[outdamnspot]

I am starting to wonder if I may be mildly malnutritioned. My Ketogenic diet is already very restrictive, and this year I got even lazier and stopped including stuff like Kale in my diet as well. At the moment, this is basically what I eat:

Coconut oil (in coffee)
Dinner (my breakfast) is some form of meat/chicken/fish and green salad
A handful of almonds and/or unsweetened almond milk shake with avocado
Another salad drenched in olive oil
6-8 eggs and peanut butter before bed

Plus lite-salt for extra sodium/potassium needs

This probably leaves me low in Magnesium, calcium, iron among other things. I have been trying to do some research but am feeling really weak. My mom said she is going to the store tomorrow and will pick up whatever I ask for, so was wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions, at least to test my theory about whether this is contributing. I thought:

A lot of kale ... for calcium, iron, magnesium
Pumpkin seeds (Magnesium)
Poppy seeds (calcium)

That's about all I can come up with, especially since I can't eat dairy. Anything else? Any other nuts that might be particularly high in nutrients?

 

[pamojja]

Supplemental Magnesium makes me worse, and so did the Chia seeds. I'm probably only getting 50-60mg a day from my diet, however, which seems low.

That would be dangerously low daily Mg intake. I measured mine and found out I get about 600 mg Magnesium from diet each day. Still developed a deficiency, therefore titrated up to 2.4 g of elemental supplemented Mg each day, additional to the 0.6 g from diet. Only eased my very severe and painful muscle-cramps somewhat. Serum and whole blood test continued to decline, now for already 9 years. Finally got 5 Mg-sulfate IVs last fall. Still my last serum just tested showed even lower..

You really don't want such a situation.

At the moment, this is basically what I eat:

Coconut oil (in coffee)
Dinner (my breakfast) is some form of meat/chicken/fish and green salad
A handful of almonds and/or unsweetened almond milk shake with avocado
Another salad drenched in olive oil
6-8 eggs and peanut butter before bed

Go to cronometer.com, sign up and enter the weight of all the foods you eat. The software calculates all nutrients you get from your diet each day, so that you get a better handle. SelfNutritionData has a nutrients search tool, which lists all food in their database with the highest nutrient content you search for. As example for Mg.

 

[outdamnspot]

That would be dangerously low daily Mg intake. I measured mine and found out I get about 600 mg Magnesium from diet each day. Still developed a deficiency, therefore titrated up to 2.4 g of elemental supplemented Mg each day, additional to the 0.6 g from diet. Only eased my very severe and painful muscle-cramps somewhat. Serum and whole blood test continued to decline, now for already 9 years. Finally got 5 Mg-sulfate IVs last fall. Still my last serum just tested showed even lower..

You really don't want such a situation.



Go to cronometer.com, sign up and enter the weight of all the foods you eat. The software calculates all nutrients you get from your diet each day, so that you get a better handle. SelfNutritionData has a nutrients search tool, which lists all food in their database with the highest nutrient content you search for. As example for Mg.

Thanks, I used cronometer. I'm actually getting 276mg of Magnesium a day (70% of goal) and enough iron. I'm not getting enough calcium (70% of goal), or Folate (30% of goal) or B1 (45% of goal). or Vitamin K (40% of goal) or Omega 3 (50% of goal).

 

[pamojja]

I'm actually getting 276mg of Magnesium a day (70% of goal) and enough iron.

Cronometer is a good start to get hinds where nutrient deficiencies could hide. However, once one starts testing serum and tissue levels one also learns there is much much more to it.

For example, could supplement multiples of iron than the RDA (which you call goal). But only once I started to supplement Betain-HCL my iron marker went up.

Similar with calcium, only once my serum 25(OH)D3 normalized serum calcium got up.

More of my thoughts on avoiding nutrient deficiencies in this post on basic supplementation.

Your difficulty with Mg supplements is a serious issue. Have you tried all different forms? Transdermal, in Nebulizer, Enemas or IVs are the only other options.


PS: actually one more option: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donat_Mg, though expensive, this mineral water contains 1g of Magnesium per liter.

 

[outdamnspot]

Cronometer is a good start to get hinds where nutrient deficiencies could hide. However, once one starts testing serum and tissue levels one also learns there is much much more to it.

For example, could supplement multiples of iron than the RDA (which you call goal). But only once I started to supplement Betain-HCL my iron marker went up.

Similar with calcium, only once my serum 25(OH)D3 normalized serum calcium got up.

More of my thoughts on avoiding nutrient deficiencies in this post on basic supplementation.

Your difficulty with Mg supplements is a serious issue. Have you tried all different forms? Transdermal, in Nebulizer, Enemas or IVs are the only other options.


PS: actually one more option: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donat_Mg, though expensive, this mineral water contains 1g of Magnesium per liter.

I've read about others with HPA-axis issues struggling to tolerate Magnesium. I'm not sure if it's the form per se .. but more the fact that it depresses the nervous system (leading to lowered BP, more lethargy, fatigue etc.).

I will look into Betain-HCL.

Do you think that insufficient intake of Folate could be contributing to the fatigue? Some of my symptoms do resemble anemia (breathlessness, palpitations etc.) and I've read that low folate will affect iron absorption.

 

[nanonug]

I am starting to wonder if I may be mildly malnutritioned. My Ketogenic diet is already very restrictive

Your diet does seem quite restrictive, yes. Given your low iron, have you considered beef liver? It has all kinds of goodies including a "healthy" amount of iron. Eating beef liver a couple of times a week may be a way to satisfy both your ketogenic diet and some of your nutritional needs.

 

[pamojja]

Thanks, I used cronometer. I'm actually getting 276mg of Magnesium a day (70% of goal) and enough iron. I'm not getting enough calcium (70% of goal), or Folate (30% of goal) or B1 (45% of goal). or Vitamin K (40% of goal) or Omega 3 (50% of goal).

Do you think that insufficient intake of Folate could be contributing to the fatigue? Some of my symptoms do resemble anemia (breathlessness, palpitations etc.) and I've read that low folate will affect iron absorption.

I find it rather hard to think that deficiencies relative to the RDA of any essential nutrient, which only prevent most serious deficiency diseases in most, in the long run would not cause much worse than fatigue or anemia only.

 

[Ravn]

@outdamnspot Your suspicion is correct, coffee can interfere with iron absorption, so can tea. Best not to have either close to a meal.
Vitamin C, on the other hand, is thought to help iron absorption so it's a good idea to have a good dose of that with your meals.
Also, iron tests can fluctuate a bit so best to do some repeat testing before drawing any firm conclusions.

 

[outdamnspot]

I feel stupid asking this -- primarily because I just seem to be pointlessly micromanaging at this stage -- but I suppose there's no stupid questions, as they say. I've just been wondering if the body can potentially treat mineral intake from food in the same way as direct supplementation. I bought some foods yesterday to try and make up for some of my potential deficiencies: before bed, I had a smoothie with an ample amount of pumpkin seeds, avocado, kale etc. The total Magnesium was probably around 150-200mg.

Today I feel a little calmer, but also completely 'dead' .. lethargic, unmotivated etc. This is pretty uncommon for me (I'm usually anxious, but keyed up), and similar to what I noticed with Magnesium supplementation, or even when consumed (without knowledge) in Bentonite clay. I remember one woman on here saying Magnesium made her feel like 'life wasn't worth the bother' and that's exactly how I'd describe the state.

 

[pamojja]

..but also completely 'dead' .. lethargic, unmotivated etc. This is pretty uncommon for me (I'm usually anxious, but keyed up), and similar to what I noticed with Magnesium supplementation,

With a severe Mg-deficiency and getting my first Mg-IVs the most immediate effect was warmth, calm and tiredness. And along with it new zeal for live. Because long standing deficiency is such a downer.

Food or any other form of administration comes with too many co-factors to know for sure. Many side-effects from essential nutrients might come from missing essential nutrients, which are co-factors.

 

[outdamnspot]

Food or any other form of administration comes with too many co-factors to know for sure. Many side-effects from essential nutrients might come from missing essential nutrients, which are co-factors.

That's what I thought. I remember when I started up again with Magnesium supplementation about 2 years ago when I was in very bad shape, I had the most dramatic effects the first 1-3 days; I almost felt drugged. I just wasn't sure if food sources could have the same effect. When I was using Chia seeds a few months ago, I had a similar issue with feeling constantly sleepy/drugged, which in retrospect may have also been the correcting of a deficiency (or several).