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Low dose Naltrexone

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Cort, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Ive tried to read this thread as much as possible but it is crazy long, I apologise if Im asking the same questions.

    Has anyone suffering severe Dysmenorrhea tried LDN? I
    I really want to try it but this worries me as I wouldnt be able to take my usual pain releif.

    I am in Australia, & am unsure if Naltrexone would be covered under the PBS for our condition. Any Aussie input would be great in regard to that.

    This is the only one I can find located at Chemist Warehouse, I also found a compounding pharmacist but they won't divulge cost without a prescription.

    Revia 50mg http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/product.asp?id=7439&Revia%2050mg%20Tablets%2030

    http://www.pbs.gov.au/meds%2Fpi%2Fbqprevia11109.pdf
  2. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Also if any Aussies had difficulty getting the prescription?
  3. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    If I remember correctly, my doc got an authoritive script when I tried it. I might be wrong though, at the very least he was happy to prescribe it.
  4. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Thanks Adster, that makes me hopeful that he'll at least prescribe it :rolleyes:
  5. penny

    penny Senior Member

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    Hi Googsta,
    What do you normally take for pain?

    It's just opiate pain killers that can be ineffective with naltrexone, since while it is in your blood stream the naltrexone blocks the effect (by competing for receptors). NSAIDs on the other hand work just fine with LDN - no competition.

    The good thing is that much of the point of LDN is to take such a very small dose of naltrexone that your body is able to clear it within a few hours -- this temporary block and then rebound endorphin production is theoretically what gives the positive effect. This also means that if you are on a dose that works for you, it should be out of your blood and so not competing for those receptors pretty quickly.

    [prepare for lots of ifs : ) - oh and this is all just what I've gathered from reading about and taking LDN (though not opiates), I am very much not a medical professional!]

    So if your pain killer is an opiate, if your cycle is relatively predictable, and if you want to try LDN, one option would be:
    To stop taking the LDN a few days before your cycle (or pain) might begin. With the right dose (for your body) you should be able to clear the LDN in considerably less time -- I think about 4 hours but am not sure really. But this can vary by person and depending on finding the right dose (which can take some time to figure out), so personally I'd give a much bigger buffer, especially at the beginning just to be on the sure side. Once the LDN is out of your system the opiates should work fine.

    My understanding is that LDN does not have to be taken continuously to benefit and there isn't withdraw or other issues, so an intermittent dosing pattern shouldn't be a problem. I think some people intentionally take a break periodically or will only take intermittent doses normally, usually I believe because their bodies have trouble clearing it. I'm not saying this is optimal, but it's not like antibiotics or some other meds where there's significant issues with taking breaks or skipping doses. Personally if I miss a dose or a couple of doses I feel a bit worse, similar to if I miss taking my regular NSAIDs, but it's mild and very temporary.

    If you do decide to try this I would give my normal advice - start very low and go very slow. I think this is good advice for anyone because some people have a very low effective dose (mine is only .5mg), but it seems especially relevant if you're depending on your body to clear the LDN in a predictable amount of time.

    I hope some of this is helpful, even if all the if's aren't true!
    Penny
  6. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Hi Penny :)

    I think I may get by with NSAID's & heatpacks as my cycle has vastly improved in the past 2 months (wish I could pin-down which supplement is helping!)
    I'm not keen on stopping & starting the LDN, so I'll give that a try first. I was having to take panadeine forte (codeine phosphate/paracetamol) also, which is an opiate.

    Thanks for replying!
  7. penny

    penny Senior Member

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    That's great that you're cycle has improved some!
    I have endometriosis, which I managed for a couple years with continuous BC pills. I went off them in the fall, had two months of difficult periods (though not beyond large doses of advil and heat's reach) and then the endometrial pain just kind of went away. My periods have been pretty normal for the last four months, knock on wood! No idea why. Very weird.

    Anyway, good luck with the LDN if you try it :) Hopefully it will help a little with the pain as well.
  8. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    You can easily stop LDN for a few days as previously mentioned.
    My PMS has substantially diminished since I use LDN. That is because a lot of opiate receptors are in the sexual organs.
  9. Googsta

    Googsta Doing Well

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    Ooh interesting, thanks Marlene. Glad you are getting results :)

    Aww Penny, I am so glad something is helping your Endo.
    I cannot tolerate BC unfortunately, things have been so bad at times I have considered a hysterectomy but I'm only 35.

    Haha may help period pain, now THAT is an incentive to give it a try!
  10. Gazelle

    Gazelle

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    brand matters

    Sushi, your experiences have been most informative. I had worked up to 3 mg LDN last year, but went off of it because of concerns about GcMAF. I spent a year on different forms of GcMAF and never really got a clinical response, bad or good, other than some mild IRIS at first, though my NK and CD4 counts increased. My C4a dropped under 200. Very little inflammation it seems. I just started back on LDN using Skip's pharmacy in FL, who are expert compounders in the stuff. Unlike last time where I began at 1 mg and kicked off an immune activation event initially and every time I increased, I am going with 0.5 mg this time. I can tell this brand of LDN is stronger, with a different release variable. I slept from 10:00-4:15, straight through with vivid dreams last night, which is good and bad. No immune activation. I'm going to move up slowly, but I think this is going to be the brand that enables me to wean other sleep meds, including one of the benzos, and get a full night's rest eventually. That is my hope anyway.

    May I ask, are you still taking other sleep meds and what they are? I don't know if I can ever go completely off, but getting down to a minimal, manageable regimen is the goal. Ironically, during my first night on LDN, I had a dream that I needed to get off sleep meds. LDN may, just may enable me to do that I pray. My adrenal function seems adequate, fortunately. Ashwaganda and turmeric seem like two very good supplements to take down inflammation and support the adrenals. Innate Response has an awesome whole food, adrenal support formula. Unfortunately, I can't tolerate milk thistle and need to find another way to support the liver.

    BTW, I don't live far from you and wouldn't mind corresponding with you off-line if possible?

    Thanks, Gazelle.
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Gazelle,

    Yes, I still take ambien though I too would like to eventually get off it. I have not tried reducing it as being able to sleep is vital, particularly as I have been taking a course at a university and needed to be "stable." When I feel it is the right time, I will start reducing it.

    Send me a PM or open a chat--interesting that you live nearby. There are a few of us I know in this area.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
  12. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Hi all. I took a trace amount of LDN on Friday morning. I slept very well Friday night, had compromised sleep Saturday night and then sleep very well last night (Sunday). My sleep was not affected as badly as had been in the past wehere I took LDN on multiple days. I missed about 3 hours of sleep, instead of 4-5, which is easier, when bookended by two good sleeps. Still not easy, I have head pain when I get less than 9 hours of sleep. I expect compromised sleep either tonight or the next night, hopefully not both. then I'll wait a couple of days to take LDN again. It seems more manageable now than it did before.
  13. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I'm interested in trying to get my doctor to prescribe this but I don't think he will have heard of it or prescribed it before so I want to be totally prepared to get a prescription in case he's willing. If I want to start at a low dose, what should I ask him to write the prescription for, 1 mg once a day? How do you slowly increase it over time if the prescription is written that way and you only have 1 mg a day available to you? Or can you get a few 1 mg pills per day or how does it work? Do you break the pills? Does it even come in pill form? Any info is much appreciated.
  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Ocean,

    The easiest way to start is with a liquid which you can get from Skip's Pharmacy in Boca Raton. The usual is to start with 1.5 mg at about 10 pm, but some find that too much and start at .5 mg. Some also take it during the day to avoid the initial insomnia.

    It comes generically in 50 mg pills but if you use those you have to dissolve one in a measured amount of distilled water, take out your tiny dose and keep the rest in a dark glass bottle in the fridge. You can get it compounded at whatever strength you want at a compounding pharmacy but then you will still have to open capsules and dissolve the contents as you up your dose.

    Only you can tell when to up the dose (wait till all your side-effects have passed and then a few days more), so it is hard to tell a doc how many of each strength capsule you want. So a liquid that you can measure out with an insulin syringe is the easiest way.

    Good luck!
    Sushi
  15. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Thanks so much Sushi, that's very helpful.

    So when I ask my doc for the prescription, does he have to specify that it's liquid? Should he write take up 4.5 mg a day or something like that? He's the kind of doctor that if I tell him exact dose and what to write, if he's not opposed to the med, he'll do it but if I don't have all the details, he won't go seek them out.

    Also, do you know if they put additives in the liquid? I suppose I can contact them and ask as well.
  16. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I suppose it would be most economical for him to write it for 4.5 mg per day as then you would get more and not have to refill as often and usually they charge a bit extra for the service of refilling. Yes, I think he would have to specify liquid.

    I think there would be additives to any multi-use bottle but Skip's is pretty good about the type of additives they use. Call and ask them exactly how your doc should write it up. I use a liquid, which I am sure has preservatives, but I get it in another country. The liquid is very convenient. You can just squirt your dose into your mouth.

    Best,
    Sushi
  17. Gazelle

    Gazelle

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    Skips is definitely the best as they use a different variable release filler that allows for quick release. My old, local compounder used a calcium filler, which likely delayed the release. My doctor called in a prescription for 1 mg pills, with the notion that I would be working up toward 3-4 mg (as labeled on the bottle). They came as capsules with powder. I started at 0.5 mg this time by pulling one of the capsules apart and pouring roughly half the powder in water. It's a little tedious, but not to difficult to put the capsule back together.

    I'm currently at 3.5 mg, working to 4 mg next week. I've generally been increasing 0.5 mg every week. I like this brand, and my sleep is deeper but still fragmented. I also feel more mellowed out the next day and seem to have more stamina. But I'm also doing neurofeedback.

    Good luck.
  18. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    I have been using LDN for a couple of months now - well a bit more but I had to stop for a bit as the oral LDN gave me a lot of stomach problems. I then started using the LDN transdermal cream which I have been doing now for a month without any major issues except to my thyroid.

    I am interested to know if anyone else here has used it for a hypothyroid condition as well as ME/CFS. I was diagnosed hypothyroid around 18 yrs ago but in the UK they don't make routine tests to see if you have Hashimoto's. Then I was diagnosed with ME/CFS about 5 yrs ago, but I now wonder if maybe it's all to do with the thyroid.....

    I already have another autoimmune condition (minor skin condition) and did have another in pregnancy many years ago, so I am hopeful that LDN might make a difference all round for me. So far the full dose of 4.5mg started to send me hyperthyroid very quickly by tests and symptoms, so now I am back down to a lower dose to phase it in more slowly with my GP monitoring my blood tests for now re the thyroid issues.
  19. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Thank you. Sounds great. I hope the doctor will agree. It may not help me, but I'd like to give it a try. Hopefully I can get my sleep to a better place and then try it, since I know it can cause sleep issues for some and I already have those, but am working on them now.
  20. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Mermaid is your doc in the UK happy to prescribe LDN? Are you on thyroxine?

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