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Low CDxx cell numbers

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by SOC, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I was looking back at my immune labs over the past several years tonight in anticipation of my upcoming phone appt with my specialist. I see the following trends in CDxx cell numbers:

    Low numbers in the following cell types -- not just slightly low, about 20% below range and steadily declining over the years

    Total CD3+
    CD8+
    Total CD5+

    OTOH, my CD56+ cell numbers are comparably high. NK cell function has usually been normal.

    Does anyone else have a similar pattern? Comments?
     
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  2. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    I'm low for both CD3+ and CD4+ (also by about 20% below the minimums);

    Normal for CD8+ (I don't have results for CD5+);

    At the very bottom of the range for CD19+; and

    Normal for NK cell (CD56+) numbers, but with NK cell function near the very bottom of the range.

    So I match with you on CD3+, with CD5+ unknown.
     
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  3. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Interesting. I'm also at the very bottom of the range for CD19+.
    My CD4+ cell number is normal (bottom 20% of range) but declining (as is pretty much everything in my immune tests :()
     
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  4. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Copy pasting my results from elsewhere.

    Cellularity sample/microL 7420
    Lymphocytes/microL 1890
    CD3+ (T lymphocytes) 49% (55-86)
    CD3+ / CD4+ (T helper lymphocytes) 34% (37-55)
    CD3+ / CD8+ (cytotoxic T lymphocytes) 12% (16-37)
    Ratio CD4+ / CD8+ 2.8 (1.0-3.0)
    CD19+ (B lymphocytes) 17% (2.0-18.0)
    Surface immunoglobulins: polyclonal
    Ratio kappa/lambda: 1.4
    CD3- / CD56+ (NK lymphocytes) 31% (2.0-30.0)

    Is this the pattern you're seeing SOC?

    I don't know what my NK cell function is like. I also would like to know what is meant with polyclonal surface immunoglobulins.

    I've been told these results are normal. However one wonders why reference ranges exist if they're just ignored.
     
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  5. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    CD3 (t-cells) 436*10E6/L 800-2400 (under the reference area)
    CD4 (t-cells) 286 * 10E6/L 500-1400 (under the reference area)
    CD8 (t-cells) 152 * 10E6/L 200-1000 (under the reference area)
    CD19 (B-cells) 60 * 10E6/L 100-150 (under the reference area)
    CD4+ naive t-cells 99.0 % of cd4 reference area: 25.0-71.0 (over the reference area)

    The lab workers wrote in this context: "Approximately 33 % of the CD4+ T-lymphocytes are CD45RA and CDRO double positive. This finding has uncertain meaning, and should be controlled with new tests at a later time. The rest of the T-cell subpopulations has normal distribution.

    Ive been reading up on this, and CD8 and CD4 deficiencies have been found in moderate ME compared to controls,, and T-cell deficiencies are generally found in autoimmune disease. Also, CD45RA has found to be elevated in ME, but
    on CD8 t-cells.

    Its obviously not normal. but we dont know why the numbers are low. Nonetheless it points towards imune dysfunction, and perhaps one cold say its an indicator that rtx could work?:) I like to think so, anyway.
     
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  6. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    All my CD's are below normal range, except my NK count which are normal. My CD8 are in the lowest range. Ratio also increased at 2.8.

    Boy, I'd like to be retested to see if mine are continually dropping too. I'm afraid they are.
     
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  7. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    We are quite alike then! What is your main symptoms? Not expexting it to be the same, but you never know! :)
     
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  8. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Mine appear to be the opposite, low where you're high, high where you're low.

    Do you have CD57+ numbers, SOC? Mine are distinctly low.
     
  9. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

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    I previously posted my symptoms on another thread so I'm just copying that post below:

     
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  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Anything changed with these labs since being on ivig?
     
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  11. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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  12. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Haven't had any of those labs since I started IVIG. I'll let you know in about 3 months. :)
     
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  13. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Thanks, I'll have to look into that.
     
  14. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    Your numbers are in percentage, while mine are in absolute numbers. That makes it a little difficult to compare. I think if everything is low, you can still have normal percentages, but have very few functioning cells. Do you have absolute numbers?

    Still, the pattern looks generally the same -- low CD3+ and CD8+ and high CD56+. Your CD4+ cells are a bit low and mine aren't. My CD19+ is bottom of range, yours is top of range. It's hard to say if those differences are because we're using different measures, or are real differences.

    I'll try to dig out the long immune forms buried in my files and see what my percentages look like.

    I agree with you about reference ranges. Yeah, maybe if one item is a bit low it's no big deal, but when you have multiple items significantly below range and a patient who is seriously ill, below range numbers should raise some red flags. Otherwise, what's the point of reference ranges at all?
    I don't think I do, but I'll check. I have a vague memory that CD57+ abnormalities can be related to Borrellia.

    How long have you been ill? Are you in the <3 years group or the >3 years group?
     
  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

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    Mine are absolutes too.

    CD3 (Total T Cells) 858 (1100-1700)
    CD4- 523 (700-1100)
    CD8- 234 (500-900)
    CD19- 130 (200-400)
    CD4/CD8 ratio 2.3 (1.0-1.5)
    CD16+56 (NK Cells) 273 (200-400)
    ABS Lymph Count 1.30 (1.6-2.4)

    I was told that they stay like this. But it was the same doctor who told me my ferritin was low because I didn't need iron :rolleyes:
    .
     
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  16. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    I've been ill at least 14 years. I do test positive for borrelia (let's just leave it at that) and have other results highly suggestive of persistent borreliosis. It's one of the reasons I asked, as our results seem almost opposite.
     
  17. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I test negative for Lyme by the standard test(s), which I don't feel guarantees I don't have Lyme (far too many false negatives with the current tests), but nobody is thinking Lyme is a big deal for me atm. So that might explain the differences in our results. It would be interesting if more people clearly positive for Lyme chimed in here.
     
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  18. divaprincess

    divaprincess

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    I test negative for lyme & here are mine.

    CD3 76 (65-85)
    CD4/CD8 ratio 3.6 (0.7-2.7)
    CD19 17 (6-22)
    CD56 6 (6-22)
    Absolute CD56 89 (18-726)
    NK Cell function is 0 or non-detectable
    CH50 >60 (30-60)
    IgG 660 (700-1600)

    My diagnosis by the immunologist is NK Cell Functional Deficiency (2011) Along with CFS (1998)
     
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  19. sorin

    sorin Senior Member

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    Hi!

    My CD4 count decreased with about 100 in 1 year (autumn 2014 compared to now).
    My latest results are

    CD3+ CD4+ 32% 674/mmc
    CD3+ CD8+ 50% 1.058/mmc
    CD4/CD8 2:3
    CD3+ CD56+ (NK-T) 13,5%

    CD4/CD8 seems to be inversed (normal is >1)
    CD8 seems to be increased
    Do not know how to interpret NK-T level

    Last year I had
    CD4 782
    CD8 1075
    CD4/CD8=0.73

    I am worried about CD4 because it is known that HIV decreases the CD4 count to a level where opportunistic dangerous infections and cancers could appear. I tested several times for HIV and it was negative, but I am worried that CFS can be the result of a HIV-like infections (not HIV 1 or HIV 2 but a similar virus).

    It is known that when CD4 deceases below 350, as far as I know, for HIV positive people, the antiviral therapy starts, which does not happen in case of CFS HIV negative.
    The same, when CD4<200 then HIV patients are declared to have AIDS and their life is in danger, special protocols have to be applied. For people with CFS but HIV negative who reach CD4<200, nothing happens, no diagnostic and hence no treatment. That is something to worry about CFS sufferers.


    Regards,
    Sorin
     
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  20. ashler

    ashler

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    I keep track of my results here.

    Although my CD4 and CD8 are both in the normal range (CD4: 592 average count / 38% and CD8: 260 average count / 16% and CD4/CD8 ratio > 2) both are in the low side of the range, specially the CD8. Inmunologist has diagnosed me with a sort of immune deficiency despite I am "within the range". He suggested me an HIV test despite I took half dozen of tests including a PCR RNA qualitative in the past.

    I think the fact CD8 is that low and the ratio is greater than 2 points to something else than HIV. But what is it?
     

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