Severe ME Day of Understanding and Remembrance: Aug. 8, 2017
Determined to paper the Internet with articles about ME, Jody Smith brings some additional focus to Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance on Aug. 8, 2017 ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Low CD4 and Low NK

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by Sinclair, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. Sinclair

    Sinclair Senior Member

    Messages:
    129
    Likes:
    41
    I am interested in collecting info about PWME with the above concurrent markers, i.e., both low CD4 and low NK (both out of range).

    Am I wrong or it seems it is the minority of PWME, can we talk about a "sub-type" here?

    (1) Could you indicate the severity of your ME condition & co-morbidities, when you became ill, and the kind of onset you experienced (acute/gradual)?

    (2) What have you discarded in differential diagnosis?

    (3) What else have you tested positive for? (in my case, IgG+ for EBV and for CMV so far, no titers available; I assume IgG + for VZV as well, since I had Chickenpox)

    (4) Is your treatment focused on increasing CD4 and/or NK or is it centered in something else?

    (5) What has proven effective in increasing CD4 and/or NK? For how long have you used them?

    (6) Have your symptoms improved due to CD4 / NK boosters?

    I hope the info collected could be useful for PWME low CD4 low NK

    Thanks for responding!
     
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes:
    5,030
    @Sinclair

    I'll just give you a brief on my experience (23yrs with ME). I had a sudden viral onset with extremely elevated anti-thyroid antibodies. When I was at my most sickest the (first 6yrs) all my CD4, CD8, ratios etc were in normal range. I didn't have an NK Function test, I don't think they do this in Canada. I don't know what viral illnesses I was tested for at the time because I didn't ask questions back then,

    Approx 7yrs later I started to feel improvement(around 80%) and I decided to try immune modulators. I had a complete relapse from taking this and that's when my CD4, CD8, ratios became all in abnormal range, except my NK count(not function) which was normal range. I was tested for variious things by PCR, CockSakie, HHV6, Paro, Lyme, etc - nothinng positive except I still had elevated antimicrosomial antibodies and + H. Pylori, which I was treated for. My IgM and IgG tested "high" for Epstein Bar and HHV6. It seems I also developed a form of OI after all that.

    Presently I'm not testing positive for anything and I'm feeling back to ok as long as I don't overdo it., in other words I'm not really "sick" but still disabled.
     
    Sinclair likes this.
  3. BFG

    BFG

    Messages:
    87
    Likes:
    26
    California
    @Sinclair

    Hi, i have also tested low for cd4 cells and slightly elevated cd8 and cd4/ cd8 ratio similar to yours at 0.53

    I also have low nk cell function, not count if that was what you were referring to.

    Im not sure if we're the minority with low cd4, because ive asked many of the best cfs specialist and some

    Lyme specialist and they have told me that this is the pattern they usually see in their cfs patients. Low cd4,

    low nk cell function twice, and a combination of low igg subclass 1 or 3, or 1 and 3.

    But I havnt seen many forum members here with low cd4 maybe a couple.

    You can read my history and old test results here .
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ence-and-looking-for-help-and-guidance.18676/
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ng-new-test-results-ebv-lyme-ekg.22587/page-2

    During the first year of my illness i fluctuated from bedbound to housebound. But after the second year i am now mostly bedbound and disabled at 28 yrs old.

    When you have low cd4 the first thing you want to discard is hiv. Ive been tezted negative and there is no possiblity of me having hiv as i have never been sexually active.

    Tested positive for the usual ebv, hhv6, c. Pnemoniae, m. Pneumoniae, vzv all high igg. high heavy metal
    Burden. Lyme negative twice through quest and focus, but currently awaiting igenex results. Mold illness suspected and awaiting hla gene and c4a marker results.

    I am negative for CMV igg and igm, HSV igg and igm. Negative for enteroviruses twice. I guess i have never caught those viruses and hope i never do.

    I was on equilibrant for around 3 months which helped a lot i went from house bound to being able to do chores and take small walks, but had to discontinue due to the calcium worsening my exitotoxicity symptoms. Did not help my gut though.

    Now im not taking anything as i have become so sensitive to all supplements and immune modulators that i used to tolerate, which is probably a sign of the condition and inflammation of my gut and brain. Just on one medication.

    I tried an expensive supplement proboost thymic protein, which i read boosted cd4 cells in cfs patients , if i recall correctly. You can look it up. It increased fatigue and started giving me parasthesias in my face and limbs so i stopped.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
  4. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes:
    679
    Czechosherlockia, USA
    I remember an "Immunology Lecture Mini-Course" youtube with Brooklyn doctor Harris Goldstein lecturing in South Africa about HIV, where he advised against taking any immune stimulators because the pathogen inside of immune cells would just proliferate more.
     
  5. Mij

    Mij Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes:
    5,030
  6. Sinclair

    Sinclair Senior Member

    Messages:
    129
    Likes:
    41
    @BFG many thanks for your reply.

    This was my view as well, not too much forum members with low CD4.

    Regarding NK, so far I have not tested function but count, and the COUNT is well below range. Can anyone have low NK COUNT but normal NK function? I understand that it is the NK function marker which is quite common amongst PWME. Does it mean that I must think in something else when it is the NK Count the problem? Or may I assume low NK function from the low NK count marker?

    Anyway, with these CD4 and NK markers an immunologist and HIV expert prescribed me Isoprinosine, which I plan to start next week. Since some PWME have get good results with this, I expect improvements after a while on it.

    My signature mentions my current tests and what has worked for me so far. I have not visited an ME/CFS expert yet, but this is something I will do in a few weeks, with additional tests. Due to my partial response to a protocol based on what the www.enterovirusfoundation.org recommends, I would be surprised (gladly surprised, of course) if an EV is not involved in my case. Well I'll report back thereafter.

    I wish you the best in your inquires and prompt improvements.
     
  7. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,923
    Likes:
    4,707
    When I was the sickest, my CD4 count was low, once even less than 500 I think. I have not checked it in a long time now.

    NK function has been low for many years...lowest was 2.

    I did once try a mushroom extract to try and increase NK cell function...don't think it helped. I don't think there have been other treatments to target these abnormalities directly.
     
    Sinclair likes this.
  8. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,923
    Likes:
    4,707
    Vitamin C boosts NK cell function I believe.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page