Julie Rehmeyer's 'Through the Shadowlands'
Writer Never Give Up talks about Julie Rehmeyer's new book "Through the Shadowlands: A Science Writer's Odyssey into an Illness Science Doesn't Understand" and shares an interview with Julie ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Low-carb better than low-fat in several ways

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by MeSci, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    from Physician's First Watch today, NB relating to obese people:

    /cts/click?q=227%3B68054938%3BpNsWhQOpkLcYBAMpIp6E%2BmxMNmKi6zH20JyKNQzQkLo%3D
     
  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Its been known since about the 1930s that high carb, high fat and high protein diets have different effects. Which is the most effective for weight loss? Given equal calories, high fat always wins. We optimize fat burning by eating fat, a trick that arctic and antarctic explorers know well. The real question that is unanswered, though we are beginning to get answers, is which is safer and healthier over the longer term. High fat has been demonized since about the 1950s. Maybe that's the right attitude ... or maybe it isn't. That's the point of science, to figure these things out.

    I suspect though that the very question is wrong. Its more about which diets are better in which circumstance. I will bet peanuts to M&Ms (joking) that the optimal diet for someone in tropical Africa would not resemble the optimal diet for someone in Siberia, and that is before looking at genetic confounds.
     
    MeSci, Scarecrow, ahmo and 4 others like this.
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes:
    2,672
    Ashland, Oregon
    Alex, that "should" be the point of science. l've noticed all too often science is cited in clever/devious ways to manipulate facts and maximize profits. I've heard that when scientific evidence first started coming out in the 1950's about the dangers of trans fats, margarine companies immediately saw the danger to their profits, and began a concerted effort to demonize saturated fats to divert attention. Don't know if it's true or not, but it seems to have at least a certain amount of credence.

    I read up recently on the best ways to optimize teeth and bone health. Turns out it's a diet high in saturated fats like fish oils, and other fats, including coconut, olive, butter, etc. (NO trans fats). I recently read the book "Grain Brain", which focuses on brain health. Interestingly, he thinks the greatest danger to the brain is a low-fat, higher carbohydrate diet. His diet recommendations for brain health were nearly identical to those I read months ago as the optimal diet for teeth and bone health. Both authors also dispute the whole low-cholesterol diet, which they consider to be dangerous. Results consistently show that those with dementia and other degenerative brain diseases have LOW cholesterol levels.

    Best, Wayne
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Recent studies are in the process of possibly debunking the idea that saturated fats are bad. Trans fats probably still are considered bad, and for good reason. I know someone who used to work in a margarine factory. The managers never ate it.

    I consider that only in extreme cases is lowering cholesterol important. Triglycerides seem to be a worse factor, as is the often overlooked homocysteine. Cholesterol lowering drugs often lower essential fat soluble nutrients.

    Science is topsy turvy if its going right. When its dominated by special interests groups from a financial, ideological or poltiical agenda, then its called Zombie Science. Dead science can keep walking through the voodoo powers of vested interests.
     
  5. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    I think you will like this new thread about flawed science, although 'like' is perhaps inappropriate in the context.
     
    alex3619 likes this.
  6. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes:
    6,107
    northern Maine
    I saw this story on some TV news program. It was immediately followed by an ad for some no-fat over-processed yogurt. It will take years and years, maybe decades, for this new science to be widely accepted and acted upon.

    I'm amazed that doctors continue to promote the no-fat, high-exercise cure for obesity even though it almost never works. I guess they've been well trained not to think for themselves.
     
    MeSci likes this.
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    The thing is there is good data that if eating a high carb diet you want to go low fat. Yet is choosing high carb the right choice? Exercise helps too, but not everyone can cope - and not everyone responds the same way, even ignoring ME. So within a narrow range of options I think low fat still makes sense ... its the options themselves that should have been questioned.

    Evidence has been growing for a long time that high carb diets are dangerous. The science is still incomplete though, and so there is room for lots of controversy.
     
  8. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    Of course there continue to be studies that say that low-fat diets help:
    but I would be interested in longer-term follow-up on both weight loss and whether people stick to the diets or revert to old habits.

    Personally I tried lots of diets in the 1970s and before. Drastic calorie reduction plus a lot of activity reduced my weight in my mid-teens but of course I couldn't stick to it. Otherwise I tried meal replacement (all high-carb), low-calorie versions of things like bread (I recall eating a whole loaf of low-calorie bread slathered with butter, cheese, etc! :lol: I was SO hungry), and other things. Even used to subscribe to a slimming magazine and read it avidly.

    Lowish-carb is the only thing that has worked easily and sustainably for me. The appetite stabilisation is a crucial element.
     
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    With locusts they eat until they have enough critical nutrients. So low nutrient food makes them eat more. I keep wondering if that is the case with people. We are not locusts, but our bodies are not stupid. It might be the case that the real key is nutrient dense food, and by that I mean micronutrients and essential amino acids, not calories. People also tend to forget there are essential fats as well ... and essential carbs. These often get missed in debate.

    I too lost weight on high carb, but I was eating a lot of vegetables, and was even vegetarian for years.

    Its important to realize that high carb nutrient dense food is not the same as high carb processed till the nutrients are gone food. Not all carbs, proteins and fats are equal.
     
    Vasha, ahimsa and MeSci like this.
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    It's of course especially important for people with reduced mobility to avoid 'empty calories' as they/we can't burn them off and they just get turned into body fat.

    At least (good) fats serve a range of essential physiological purposes, unlike simple carbs.
     
  11. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Pentose sugars are essential. We really need them in the diet. However most carbs are laden with hexose sugars, and these are easily made and interconverted by the body.
     
    anne_likes_red and MeSci like this.
  12. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    I wasn't familiar with pentoses so did some searching. This paper suggests that I get plenty in my vegan diet.
     
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,491
    Likes:
    35,110
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Yes, can be lots in vegetarian diet, but can be lacking on other specialized diets. We don't need a lot, but high starch foods are high hexose foods.
     
    MeSci likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page