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Lombardi et al 2011 - cytokine signature in CFS

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by jace, May 13, 2011.

  1. 5150

    5150 Senior Member

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    Jemal, thanks for your helpful response on pm
     
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Those who have had cytokine testing done and xmrv for that matter, have u also had nk function testing done? and what were the results?

    cheers!!!
     
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I think an article looking at cytokine results in CFS featuring this paper and others would be great idea for an article. I think the field is moving towards immune dysfunction and this paper, the Broderick work and the Klimas/FLetcher studies suggest they may be getting a handle on it.

    What I think I'll do is incorporate it into the immunology section of the SOK review that I am way behind on.... I'm actually pretty behind on alot of stuff - including this paper, which I have not even gotten into the XMRV Buzz page :).
     
  4. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Since we know that people on this Forum had different results from the XMRV testing - I think it would too much to expect them to match.
     
  5. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    That's interesting about K2 (and it means you can throw your IL-6 counts out, I guess)....There doesn't seem to be too much normal going in with your cytokines!

    Of course these are aggregate reports and most people will not fit the profile exactly...-although you do seem to be right in between! Their main usefulness, I would imagine, is to demonstrate a general pattern of immune abnormalities in ME/CFS...

    Given the trickiness of the immune system treatment will definite require a person by person profile......
     
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi, these are just some thoughts I have had on this topic, just some ideas to kick around, nothing solid.

    Cytokines are often short lived. The blood tests might differ with time of day, supplements, diet, infections, and activity levels. The symptoms that match these cytokines frequently appear sporadically in patients. So the question is really: when and how were the tests done?

    Another confounding factor is the type of test used. Klimas said (iirc) that the newer tests were much better. It might be the case that older tests were inaccurate.

    Finally, there is the challenge testing. Having patients exercise first is a fantastic idea to spot induced cytokines, but I would also want to know what the cytokine levels were the next day.

    Cytokines may or may not be a reliable measure. We need to know more.

    I am also kicking around issues with gamma delta t-cells. If they have proliferated this will put demand on many things, including folate and glutathione. Also, once proliferated they will become more responsive in the presence of their triggers, less so if the trigger is absent. Since they can regulate NK cell activity, they could potentially explain NK cell dysfunction. We lack CFS specific data.

    Bye
    Alex
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I also wonder if the nk cells burn out and arent around long enough to mature, similar to low neutrophils after an infection. If our bodies are being attacked by multiple reactivated infections, how can our nk cells and other t-cells keep up. I know by my experience that lowering my herpes viral load showed improvement in my nk function and lymphocytes. So i think we need to really find out what infections are bugging us and treat them and then specific treatments to bolster the immune system like interferon inducers, immunoglobulins etc. I wonder if this is what montoys is looking into, mmm.

    cheers!!
     
  8. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    I hope Montoya is looking into that. That would be great.
    I hope we get a lot more research into this area of immune function.

    You know, Rich, I feel like I have both your hypothesis and Dr. Shoemaker's hypothesis happening in me at the same time. Plus if XMRV is present and doing bad things it could be contributing its own unique retroviral talents in messing up the immune system.

    Thank you for the info Alex!
     
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    interferon which our body producers can be down regulated by herpes infection like ebv/cmv/hhv6. This reduced interferon can lower nk function, so interferon inducers like immunovir and cycloferon can help with this. Im not sure about immunoglobulins with specific effects on nk function but it does help improve other parts of our immune system.
     
  10. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Do we know anything about where the ME/CFS subjects in this study were from? Where they from all over the USA? In the paper i can't find anything about this.
     
  11. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Mary.

    I think that it is actually possible that both Dr. Shoemaker's mechanism and the one I have suggested could be present in a person simultaneously. In fact, I suspect that in a person who is genetically susceptible to mold illness and is exposed to toxic molds, the mechanism he has described could occur first, and the toxins could build up in the person's body, and then these toxins could cause glutathione to become depleted, leading into a partial methylation cycle block for a person who was also genetically predisposed to that. Slayadragon has called my attention to published literature that indicates that some of the mold toxins do deplete glutathione. I have communicated with Dr. Shoemaker about this, but as far as I know, he is still not wildly enthusiastic about this prospect! :)-) Nevertheless, I do think it is a possibility.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  12. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I would like to get some more information about the grant that is mentioned in this paper (RO1A1078234). Does somebody know how to find out more? Maybe it can be done here, but i don't know how to do it.
     
  13. Sam Carter

    Sam Carter Guest

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  14. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    Thanks a lot, Sam.
     
  15. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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    Has anyone had their cytokines tested at the WPI or VIPdx and also at Klimas lab? That would be interesting. I have had mine tested at VIPdx multiple times. They vary a lot, but if there is one that I can count on being elevated and abnormal it is IL-8.
     
  16. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    Thanks, Rich. I wish Dr. S could look beyond his own piece of the elephant.
    By the way, who is Mary? lol

    That is really interesting, acer2000!
     
  17. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Sorry, Forebearance.

    I was in the middle of trying to answer a post from Mary on another thread, and got confused. Can I plead brain fog?

    Dr. S. is pretty focused, but I think he has mellowed a little! :)-)

    Rich
     
  18. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    acer.. my ID doc Joe Brewer told me that the info out of the WPI links elevated IL8 to XMRV. He was otherwise unwilling to read too much into cytokines... says they fluctuate and no one is really sure what that means. Paraphrasing here!
     
  19. Forebearance

    Forebearance Senior Member

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    Hey, leaves, it worked on me! I tried some vitamin K2 and felt my inflammation go down. Woo hoo! And thanks for telling us about it.
     
  20. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    im glad to hear it! btw luteolin may also be useful for these cytokines..
     

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