The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Lo/Alter study's tests of 15yr old samples could weaken prostate cell contam. theory

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Stephen12, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. Stephen12

    Stephen12

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    Take a close look at this passage from Lo et al from August, 2010, page 5/6, first paragraph, col.2. Recall that noted CFS clinician Anthony Komaroff was also part of this work:

    "Testing of the repeat blood samples, ~15y after the index sample, showed that seven of eight patients examined had detectable MLV-gag sequences. Significant variations of MLV-like virus gag gene sequences amplified from the freshly obtained blood samples were identified as would be expected in retroviral infections, but not from contamination."

    As you may recall, this study was held up last summer and forced to do additional testing after CDC's contradictory findings at about the same time. Doing these retrospective tests on old samples from Dr. Komaroff's practice may have been one of these additional protocols. (BTW, Lo is talking about a different kind of direct contamination than was discussed at the CROI last week.) But note that Lo/Alter took samples from Dr. Anthony Komaroff's patient sample stores from 15 years ago. 7/8 tested positive for MLVs. This would place the timeline of the CFS patients' infection at the early-to-mid 1990s, well before when the supposed recombination contamination of a prostate cell research line took place, as is the theory presented at CROI.

    Though some scientists still say that Lo's MLVs are not closely enough related to XMRV, I have read previously (I don't remember where) that, unofficially, Dr. Mikovits has found XMRV in some of Lo's/Komoroff's old samples.

    If WPI and Lo's group can close the loop on MLVs vs. XMRV, the timing of these 15 year old samples would seem to strongly contradict the CROI contamination theory. Furthermore, if WPI would publish its findings of XMRV in Lo's/Komoroff's old patient samples, this would further dent the new contamination bandwagon.

    Stephen
     
  2. Ernie

    Ernie

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    Yes that's if they will stop the blocking of positive papers and the funding that is not getting through as well.
     
  3. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    Upstate SC, USA
    There is something fishy about this whole MLV and XMRV relationship. I think it will evolve into something unexpected and this unexpected will play into this whole XMRV contamination, yes it is there - no it is not there, it's in these organs but not replicating anymore and whatever else. Something is just not right with this whole picture, but I certainly have no idea what it could be and I'm not suggesting any cover ups or conspiracy theories. The scientific world will learn something very new and previously thought to be just about impossible. Just a SWAG (Scientific Wise Ass Guess)!!
     
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    If XMRV first occured when predicted by the recombination theory, then there's no way it's a causative factor for CFS anyway, so I don't see the testing of old samples as an extra problem here.
     
  5. Hope123

    Hope123 Senior Member

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    I haven't been through all the XMRV papers/ talks, etc. but my understanding about the mouse contamination/ XMRV recombination theory is that it doesn't have to do only with WHEN people became ill but rather the type of testing that is conducted (e.g. culture at least requires use of other cells, which might be contaminated, and other types of testing, like antibodies, could have components where other cell types are used) and also where the testing took place (e.g. what types of viruses, etc. are in the environment of the lab itself that could be a byproduct of agents used, other studies done in the past unrelated to ME/CFS, etc.).
     
  6. Stephen12

    Stephen12

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    Your point is well taken, but as I understand it, the crux of Hue's argument is that it was the event of studying prostate cancer cells using mouse material that formed XMRV and that this event took place around 1999. So if Komaroff's old samples are shown to have XMRV then I think that blows a hole in these hollow contamination theories. Eventually, the scientific community must say ENOUGH with all these theoretical arguments against XMRV and start legitimately studying it the way scientists are supposed to do!
     
  7. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Sorry Stephen, I got your point the wrong way arround.

    I think Hue would say that 15 year old samples can be contaminated during testing.
     

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