Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Ember, Apr 20, 2013.
Thanks Ember, and of course thank you LLewellyn King for these excellent interviews. This interview must have taken place when Prof. De Meirleir was in NYC recently meeting with the group at Mt. Sinai.
I wonder how many of us have "Viking genes?"
His advice to researchers to look for the source of atypical inflammation is also a lead. Things are moving, even though it often seems they are in the background.
I do! (and I can tell heapsreal does )
Viking genes, I have some Scandinavian heritage, but also Scottish and Irish ... both of which were "colonized" by Vikings.
i think its interesting how he mentions that cfs/me progresses into an autoimmune illness after the initial infectious illness. This seems to happen alot in MS too.
Generally people think that autoimmune problems are when the immune system attacks ones self but is it?
in cfs/me i dont think this is apparent but i have been thinking that immune dysfunction is auto-immune where immune defiency is a lack of or reduced number of certain immune cells where in cfs/me we have the right number but the buggers dont work( or combo of reduced number and function).
So this immune cells not working also a definition of autoimmunity not just the immune system attacking itself??
Or is he merging auto-immunity with auto-inflammatory?
Auto-immune does mean one's immune system attacking one's own body.
But I think your suggestion of having enough of a type of immune cell - but that they don't work - is very plausible.
Maybe it's the T-regulatory cells referred to in Joel's recent article 'Spanish HIV Experts Give Aid to ME/CFS', which made me think the same thing as you. They are supposed to control autoimmune responses. It could be that either the T-regs have an inherent inability to do their job, or something on which they are supposed to act is abnormal. The Spanish researchers found that levels of several T-regs were in fact high. Maybe there is some kind of analogy with insulin: persistent hyperinsulinaemia leads to insulin resistance and diabetes. Maybe we are resistant to the T-regs?
Now I am getting to this thread. My take on what he said is that this can begin from multiple infectious starting points--and if it can be treated early, it can be stopped--but if not, it progresses eventually to an autoimmune illness. This has happened in my case. And what he observed about ancestry was exciting to me too--as a "yes"--because I have Scottish and other northern ancestry too. I hope some researcher gets on this track--
hmmmm, my family genealogy is predominantly Gaelic.
Thanks for posting Ember. Thanks to Mr King and KDM! Really love the handful of folks in the world dedicated to helping us.
Hi to everybody,
I have translated the interview into Spanish for those who don't manage with English. Let me post it here in case it may be of help to some (there're actually non-english-natives who manage with written English but not that much with spoken English, or even some who directly use online translators):
That was a great episode. Very informative. I was glad to hear him speak up about the dangers of Rituxin. That is a scary drug, that I would never consider.
I have exclusively northern European ancestry, but am not sure if any of it is Viking. Are there indicators of that in the 23&Me results? Does anyone know? And if so, where are they?
The autoimmune process he's talking about is the one he and his team proposed in his last published paper, involving HERVs.
And as far as I know, nowadays there's a consensus on the autoimmunity as being a result of a defective/depressed immune system, rather than an over stimulated immunity. Also, I think the hypothesis about the own cells being attacked, not by mistake, but because they contain HERVs in their DNA doesn't seem so crazy under the light the new findings are shedding on the subject. Time will tell of course.
My 1st cousin had her DNA done through ancestery.com and she has 70% of her genes from the Netherlands. Our Grandmother was Scandanavian. We have a lot of Celtic Blood, Scottish and Irish blood. Those damn Vikings got around. My daughter has dark red hair. I was told once that if you see a Red Head that it's from the Vikings.
For anyone who has done the 23&Me testing....
If you go to the page with ANCESTRY COMPOSITION, they give you a breakdown of what percent of your DNA comes from each of 22 populations worldwide.
As it turns out I have only .2% Scandinavian and .1% Finnish, and 2.7% nonspecific Northern European... whatever that means. So not really significantly Viking in my case.
Can someone set up a poll to count the
number of us who have "Viking genes."
Be interesting to see the results.
The ancestry thing doesn't apply to me. I am small, dark-haired and dark-eyed and believe that a fairly-recent ancestor was Spanish.
On the other hand, living in the Northern hemisphere - or at relatively high latitude - may well be a risk factor due to the risk of Vitamin D deficiency.
or it's dyed!
According to 23andme this is how my DNA breaks down:
99.4% - British and Irish
0.2% - nonspecific Northern European
0.1% - Iberian
0.1% - nonspecific European
0.2% - unassigned
But I think it doesn't include the Y chromosome. If it did then my figure would be lower as my Y chromosome comes from the middle east.
Also we have to bare in mind that 23andme isnt looking at all our dna, and is only based on current data, with data represented higher in the West.
I don't think the 23andme is really specific enough. 99% British/Irish?? I mean the Vikings invaded over 1000 years ago and settled so will be part of these genes I would think.
Especially so in the North and East of Britain - Scotland too. My g/father was scottish and my mother was irish, loads of red hair in the family, interesting stuff........
Totally! If you look at just Y chromosome maps what you see is a patern where the further north and west you go the higher the occurence of the common group R which is the native haplogroup. Because the south, east and to a lesser degree the north was getting invaded again and again. Also the Norman's carried a lot of scandanavian DNA, so even that influx of new DNA would have carried scandanavian genes.
So the British/Irish distinction is really not very helpful. Its like that because they dont have better data yet, unfortunately.
My cousin has red hair.
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