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liver enzym CYP2C19*17 frustrates Progesteron, adrenals and MAO A

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by WoolPippi, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    I've got to go over this thread again, I had the acth stim test done and now my cortisol is back into the 24's. I guess it was the B6 that took it down for a while. I talked to one of my docs the other day and mentioned hormones and he said something to the effect he loves hormone therapy but doctors won't do it because of fear of being sued. He was serious.

    I just have a hard time with that statement though because they can get sued for anything, why concentrate on hormones? I know he really meant what he said and it's probably true but it still doesn't make sense.
    There's a lot of other things doctors don't want to diagnose though, like Hashimoto's and hyperparathyroidism, not to mention the CFS/ME that I read about on here.
     
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I want to sue my drs who didn't prescribe me hormone therapy earlier o_O
     
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  3. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , the doctor that told me this might not be able to prescribe them. Probably he could legally, but there's some kind of secret code of conduct going on around here IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  4. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    I have CYP2C19*17 : +/-
    What does that mean? (Sorry, I am new to all this)
     
  5. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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  6. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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  7. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @jason30 , I'll give this a shot, but I'm not one of the experts here, just stumbling around here looking for crumbs:rolleyes:. The +/- and -/+ means you're heterozygous, you got a variant from one parent only. That usually means that if that snp is "turned on" it could make a smaller difference (or none) than the +/+ (homozygous).

    I'm not sure that the -/- is as innocent as it looks, because there are plenty of variants that are recessive, and the -'s make me wonder if the recessive variants are listed like that also. I take it that the applications like Livewello, etc. show the variants in the + sign, but I am not sure and would love to know. I think they refer them in the forward position.

    There's a third possibility, that snp might be " turned off" so you might not have any worries from it, if I have that straight.

    Hopefully someone will comment and help us both out.
     
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  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Exactly :D

    Yes, though often even the homozygous version reported as +/+ does little or nothing at all. Unfortunately there's a lot of innocent SNPs which have been falsely accused of doing horrible things, such as by Yasko. But basically genes will usually behave in a dominant or recessive manner. If dominant, only one naughty allele (heterozygous) is needed for the SNP to affect gene function substantially. If recessive, then a heterozygous SNP on that gene will essentially have no effect.

    Hence +/- can be a misleading label. It doesn't indicate a smaller impact, or intermediate risk between being -/- or +/+. It just shows that only one allele is present, and says nothing about whether it's relevant at all. So in addition to reading the original research to make sure a SNP hasn't been falsely accused, it's also usually necessary to read the research to see how much impact it has when +/- or +/+.

    -/- doesn't have anything to do with being recessive. It's used to (supposedly) indicate the lower-risk version of a SNP. However sometimes people use it for the more common version of a SNP, even if the less common version is protective and hence less risky.

    Genes can be regulated, with external factors in the body causing them to produce more or less of their protein. But SNPs basically never change. So a SNP is not regulated or turned off or on or up or down. People often extrapolate from the regulation of genes to suggest that something similar happens to SNPs, but they are just making stuff up to attempt to explain why research shows that a certain SNP (usually on the CBS gene) doesn't do what Yasko & Co says it does. Either the SNP does something, or it doesn't - it doesn't get "expressed" depending upon external factors. Only the gene can do that, in which case the specific SNPs are irrelevant, beyond the impact which they always have.
     
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  9. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Thanks @Valentijn . I get used to reading turned off or on, so I need to change my description to expressing or not expressing?

    Thanks for the info on the genes being regulated, I wasn't aware it happened quite that way. So epigenetics is still a possibility. I'd been starting to doubt it.

    Researching these genes/snps is mind boggling for someone like me, but believe it or not, your help with my variants made a lot of difference. Thanks again.
     
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  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Yes, for genes. I'm not sure if they're ever turned completely off, and can have a wide range of activity rather than just being "on".

    Yes, but only in the context of entire genes (or rather, what they create). SNPs become irrelevant in the context of epigenetics.
     
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  11. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Just got back from eye dr. and tried to do some shopping afterward. It gets embarrassing when you can't walk well enough unless you sit down on the store's chairs for a while. Oh well, they made money anyway.

    Thanks once again, @Valentijn . Got my meds changed and finally coming out of a fog. That's really useful to know.

    I've been wondering about your appt., I think I looked around several times to see if/what the result was (assuming you posted it) but can't even remember.:bang-head:
     
  12. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    Both @Paralee and @Valentijn thanks for the clearly explanation.
    Confusing about the contradictions.

    Apart from the cyp2c19 I also have 2 other heterozygous mutations.
    MTHFR C677T and MTHFR A1298C. I think it's worth paying attention to them.
     
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  13. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @jason30 , I understand how confusing this is. I'm still trying to graduate from kindergarten.

    We have several on this forum that are way ahead and can help, @Valentijn is one, and there are several others.

    I wish you well with your education, lol. The MTHFR genes I haven't looked at too much yet because supposedly I don't have variants that are supposed to count. And the time involved trying to understand this is just like.....forever.
     
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  14. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin Senior Member

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    Did you ever get a reference? I am interested in taking progesterone but I already have low serotonin.
    This is all I was able to dig up:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15206761
     
  15. Konflict

    Konflict Senior Member

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    Can low progesterone (or altered progesterone receptors) cause connective tissue diseases?
     
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  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I am looking into zinc deficiency for those issues. Will post study quotes later, but I suggest googling zinc and any sex hormone receptor. Also trying to figure out how to avoid oxalate kidney stones while at it (B1, B6, Biotin, Magnesium with Zinc).
     
  17. Awags1986

    Awags1986

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    I had some horrendous (months long, and still dealing with some ill effects) reaction to methylcobalamin and methylfolate supplements I was given, and am finally starting to have more good days than bad. I was having times where my joints felt like they were melting and were all just going to fall out of place. I was started in magnesium citrate 200mg am and PM as well as Niacin 50mg 4 times a day for a few weeks then lowered it to 2 times a day. Those two things have helped me the most, but I do believe I have EDS (not diagnosed, but symptoms match up) and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with why I reacted so badly to the methyl supplements...
     
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  18. Awags1986

    Awags1986

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    I do wonder about the niacin/progesterone theory because of all of this now.....my symptoms seem to flare at times when progesterone is even lower in my cycle...
     
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  19. Konflict

    Konflict Senior Member

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    Yea there's a theory going around on this web sight named raypeats for guys who have side effects from taking propecia and saw palmetto (VERY similar to CFS and ME....but only men get these sides) and a Russian guy is claiming that the progesterone receptor is the culprit, primarily because of the many thyroid side effects we get.

    Anyway, I thought I'd bring up the progesterone stuff here to see if there's any correlation. Ive had side effects from propecia and saw palmetto for 7 years, but mainly low T and hypothyroidism were the main sides. Then in November 2016 I took methylfolate, P5P, methylcobalamin, and riboflavin all individual and developed several new sides after a month from starting them.....most notably EDS type collagen issues. I have joint hypermobility now when I used to be VERY tight and stiff before, and it also feels like my tendons and ligaments are worse than the joints themselves. Eye bad gumline recession and loose teeth. On and off constipation/diarrhea, thinner smoother skin, colder body temp (low 97-mid 96 F), and I swear my lips and earlobes have lost their puffiness.

    I'm a male FYI. I truly feel I will die from the connective tissue problems, my spine feels very weak and my neck feels like it's on a swivel, like I've just been whiplashed. Little faint cracks and snaps everytime I move any joint around. I've sort of wondered if CFS in gerneral has is self induced encephalitis aka brain inflammation/infection. That's why we all have similar yet vastly different symptoms. Idk I'm just really scare how quickly my body has deteriorated in less than a year.
     

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