Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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liver enzym CYP2C19*17 frustrates Progesteron, adrenals and MAO A

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by WoolPippi, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , my thyroid is toast, atrophied. Imaging techs say they don't see any production, so I take NDT. I remember trying Black Cohosh years ago...how I felt I don't remember, except that I was sssooooo hungry. That's another reason I might try it, I would love to feel hungry sometimes. :thumbdown:
     
  2. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    LOL, I need to figure out what FSH really tells. When I was "fertile" I never heard any words or anything like that. I let the gynos tell me what was what and never even thought to ask for paperwork. But I was a baby maker, no problems, no pms, no anything that plagues a lot of women. Until lately, I didn't know what any of those things/problems felt like.
     
  3. jjxx

    jjxx Senior Member

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    How funny! When I ran into that article, I assumed that's where your statement came from. If I knew you had a different reference, I would have saved and forwarded to you. But now I am curious about where your reference comes from?
    You know progesterone scares hack of me, but my guess is that progesterone promotes B3 production, then yes B3 is well known related to kidney stone somehow.
     
  4. jjxx

    jjxx Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland @Paralee Since I am researching into estrogenic herbs, and I would like to share this research article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11875334
    My take is that I would not consider Dong Quai or Gingseng, especially at high dosage; Black cohosh and licorice root will be my top choices when I finally decide to add some estrogenic herbs to my regime, even though this particular study failed to show their estrogenic activity. Hard to explain my rational.
     
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  5. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland. thank you again for all your help.

    Edit: @jjxx, I wanted to thank you also, got mixed up on who's who on one post.

    you've both been so helpful.

    RE: bioidentical hormones and oxalates, the bios are made from plants, but the articles said they're produced to be exactly what the body uses. So maybe they extract the oxalates from the plants?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  6. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @jjxx and @Gondwanaland, I just don't know what to think about those little ncbi experiments. Very vague. Dr.'s seem to like them though.
     
  7. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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  8. London Rachel

    London Rachel London Rachel

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    Paralee and Gondwanaland - I am hugely interested to read this. I'm having nightmares supplementing with sex hormones. Oestrogen only relieves symptoms for me - and Progesterone (bio-identical, creams or vaginal oils) is a nightmare - can't tolerate even small amounts - it converts to cortisol - and I end up with pounding pulses, high blood pressure and not being able to sleep at night. I'm a bit of a novice on the whole gene thing - but would love any references to what you know about this potentially being connected with B3 deficiency - if that's the case and I have understood rightly. I am in early meno - having had RAI for Graves - and am facing a hysterectomy if I can't get onto Progesterone. The clock is ticking for me so would love to hear any understanding you have of this and what do to about it. Do I just supplement with B3? Would so love your insight thank you.
     
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  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I am doing estrogen replacement (transdermal gel) and avoiding progesterone. I don't think I can supplement with B3 since it could lead to urate kidney stones. I will have to give niacin a try, but I definetely know that I can't tolerate nicotinamide. I wonder what's @jjxx 's input.
     
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  10. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @London Rachel and( @Gondwanaland and @jjxx ) , have you had your niacin checked? Then you could decide about taking a supplement. But then there's always those pesky genetics that might sub-route something important. Like one of my down stream pathways don't do right and I end up being estrogen dominant, but then there's DIM and something else (if you can't do methyls) that you can take to eliminate that problem.

    I wish I could figure the genetics out enough like @WoolPippi does to know just what CYP(s) are wrong with mine. I think there's several.d

    I just had a stim test done (cortisol) and waiting for results. My morn. cortisol was down to 4.6. Then I want to try the bioidentical hormone progesterone again....if it won't work by itself I will try adding bioidentical estrogen and just get lab work done when I think I need to. I'll also have to get the other supplement that acts the same as DIM because I can't take methyl/methyl donors, etc.

    I don't think our bodies were expected to carry on without hormones, it takes a big chunk out of our processes.

    Thanks for the link jjxx, I just wish I understood it.

    Edit: those little pathways are my problem, I have a variant in one of them that gave me breast cancer. I wouldn't worry about it but I still have the rest of my baby maker organs, even though they no longer carry on....haha.

    Edit again....sorry, this post just keeps growing. London Rachel, your progesterone would be used to produce cortisol if your cortisol is low, right? That's how I plan to attempt bringing up my cortisol, and I've also used it to take my cortisol down once when it was too high.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    DIM gives me suicidal thoughts - I am not sure if it blocks estrogen receptors or if it accelerates estrogen breakdown.
     
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  12. London Rachel

    London Rachel London Rachel

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    Hi @Paralee
    Thanks for coming back. I can take a 3 test, but would love to know why you think progesterone intolerance is due to low B3 - is there a study or something you know that shows this - would love to understand the science. My Cortisol isn't low - it's normal amount but a bit dysregulated with a tendency to be a little over range in the morning and a little low in the afternoon but the daily amount is good. Every time I take progesterone even in small amounts it makes too much cortisol - particularly at night and I'm awake with a pounding heart - and flushing tends to get worse. I really have a clock ticking to sort out why else it's either facing living with out oestrogen (which feels like an unbearable life) or having a hysterectomy. I can't take DIM or Calcium D Glucarate, they affect the lymph system and make my ankles swell. Calcium D Glucarate is a natural calcium channel blocker which can affect the lymph vessels in some.

    What else can I read about CYP's playing into the progesterone intolerance thing.
    I was taking TUDCA to help with the oestrogen processing but eventually I had to stop that as it seems to overwhelm the system. Was good for a few months and even helped me stop crashing for a bit.
    Thanks both @Gondwanaland - for any advice.
     
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  13. London Rachel

    London Rachel London Rachel

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  14. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , I think the one time I was giving DIM a trial it did that to me too. It was almost scary, I'll have to try the other one.
    I just thought of why I can't take estrogen right now, darn it. It lowers cortisol, so I've read. I don't have enough to let any go. I'll have to try the progesterone again.
     
  15. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @London Rachel , I don't think I brought up the B3-niacin, but jjxx said something to the effect that if you are deficient in B3, then your progesterone will make niacin instead of serotonin, I don't know why it chooses that one over serotonin, but I've noticed about everything in the body has more than one plan to get its job done.

    I'm wondering if you have a cyp fast metabolizer for either all or some of your estrogen. That could maybe be the reason you need it (or more of it) instead of the progesterone?

    I think I need to get all my vits. etc. checked, I know I have plenty of little evil variants, etc. I haven't found a dr. that will order them so it will be costly.
     
  16. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , I think the one time I was giving DIM a trial it did that to me too. It was almost scary, I'll have to try the other one.
    I just thought of why I can't take estrogen right now, darn it. It lowers cortisol, so I've read. I don't have enough to let any go. I'll have to try the progesterone again.
     
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  17. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I read somewhere that vitamin B1 inhibits cortisol breakdown, I don't know what the folks taking B1 right now think about that.
    Lowering cortisol is of great help to me.
     
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  18. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    you can say that again :oops:

    I don't think the SNPs always play a role. I am in this poor situation due to every doctor I saw since 2013 prescribing me progesterone only.
     
  19. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , you can order bio estrogen online without a script. You'd just need to pay for a test occasionally, I guess, to make sure you're ok there.
     
  20. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Gondwanaland , I think I had heard it directs it down the right path (whatever that is) instead of the one that would cause cancer.
     
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