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Little fingers- do you have a bent joint or defect in them?

Discussion in 'Connective Tissue Disorders/Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome' started by Allyson, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    Hi All,

    I was just wondering if anyone has a bent joint or defect in the little finger.

    Mine are both bent and defects in the little finger can be a sign of a genetic condition

    Apparently due to muscular contractions inhibiiitng the growth plate during development

    It may be connected to EDS ( more on that link at
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...los-syndrome-stretchy-veins.20351/#post-31087

    many thanks for any replies
  2. VeganMonkey

    VeganMonkey Senior Member

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    Do you have a picture to compare to? Me and my mother have odd looking pinky fingers, as if they bend outwards a little, but only a little bit.
  3. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    it varies, a common one is for the top - distal joint to point outward s little bit; there is a pic on it on wiki i htink it is called by a technical name someone told me in the EDS thread - I will have to check it and reply ; will post a link

    my pinky defects are different though but bilateral and congenital
  4. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    CLINODACTYLY is the medical term - latin and greek for "bent finger!"

    it has been connected with autism and other genetic illnesses
    here is one site with a pic

    http://www.handresearch.com/news/never-underestimate-little-finger-pinky-pinkie.htm
    but there are other sites and other varieties of bends


    I am just curious to see if this goes anywhere in the EDS connections....

    cheers and thanks in advance everyine for any replies

    I would be interested if you OR a close family memberhas it - you may have to ask - I haveit but no- one in my family would know about it as it is so slight - just looks like it is permanently slighty bent.

    (There is an etablished connection i think between EDS and carpel-tunnel sydrome but this is a different issue,)
  5. VeganMonkey

    VeganMonkey Senior Member

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    Mine doesn't look like any of those pictures, it bends a bit towards the outside not towards the ring finger.
    Allyson likes this.
  6. Sherlock

    Sherlock bicarb for exercise recovery and taming candida

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    Yes, but not that bad. Index fingers, also. I'd always assumed it was from a mineral or other nutrient deficiency as a child - very picky eater then.

    [edit: and I'm the exact opposite of hypermobile in joints]
  7. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Yes, my pinky fingers are noticeably bent in towards the others. My father also had this, but he said it was because he had broken both of them as a kid. Now, I wonder about that.

    I don't at all have hypermobility, though. I've been very stiff mostly. ( I remember not being able to touch my toes in kindergarten.)
  8. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    t\

    thanks crux - that is called clinnodactyly and CAN e a sign of gennetic disorders

    it si funny poeple are soayig either hyperflexible or - like me - the exact opposite - ie tight muscles causing lack of flexibility
    there is a kind of EDS called musculocontractural but i cna't find out much about it.

    little finger defct i read are due to muscle tightness causing pressure on the growth plate of the finger at develpment stage...
    have you read or considered the EDS theory?


    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads%2Fis-me-due-to-ehlers-danlos-syndrome-stretchy-veins.20351%2F


    And this was just posted on an EDS forum

    World-renowned EDS Expert Dr Rodney Grahame points out that, in America, almost 650,000 cases of EDS are missed ANNUALLY, based on studies that suggest almost 95% of cases presenting to clinics are missed, most often diagnosed with other things (fibro, ME/ chronic fatigue syndrome, etc.). - I have not read the link yet

    See: http://tinyurl.com/cc5qk57

     

    Crux likes this.
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Thanks Allyson;
    There's alot to be learned about EDS.
    Luckily, I have also had great results from the B12. (Many of the symptoms of B12 deficiency and EDS overlap.)
    It looks like getting enough of the collagen strenthening amino acids would also help. ( I make alot of bone broth, high in glycine, proline, with some lysine.)
    I've read a little about some minerals that may help with collagen, skin, joints. Copper and Zinc are brought up. ( I take zinc, and get copper from foods.)
    I thought the bent fingers were from bone deformations, but I can understand how the tension from joints' and muscles' improper function might also cause this.

    I have no doubt that genetics have been the biggest part of my health problems.
    Allyson likes this.
  10. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    Thanks indeed Crux that is all iteresting' i have also been trying lysine (and my sister - who is also symptomatic of EDS - has pyrolles disease- sinc deficiency)

    ANy chance you could share how to make the broth - i have no idea and it sounds good and useful

    i had white spots on my fingernails til i took zinc supps - must re- start them.
    That was just something i read abouthte fingers - the damage occurs in the embryonic stage i think is the belief)
    collagen - yes b 12 helps build it too i think as does protein.
    yes i wondered about "hair skin nails" formulas that are widesly available too - used to take themand they sure helped my nails visibly strenghten.
    Thanks again for the feedback. I will copy your post onto the main EDS thread if that is OK so all the info is there for those (14,000 plus) who are reading and conntributing there.
  11. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    interetig thanks Sherlock - as i have said elsewher it seems form feed back to these posts that people are ither very flexible or as you say " the exct opposite" - so increased muscel tension may be the issue for some of us.

    Just got thsi new article in

    Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, Hypermobility Type

    Synonyms: EDS Hypermobility Type, EDS Type III, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome Type III

    Howard P Levy, MD, PhD
    Department of Medicine, Division of General Internal Medicine
    McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine
    Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
    Baltimore, Maryland

    Initial Posting: October 22, 2004; Last Update: September 13, 2012.

    Go to:

    Summary .

    Disease characteristics. Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS), hypermobility type is generally considered the least severe type of EDS, although significant complications, primarily musculoskeletal, can and do occur. The skin is often soft or velvety and may be mildly hyperextensible. Subluxations and dislocations are common; they may occur spontaneously or with minimal trauma and can be acutely painful. Degenerative joint disease is common. Chronic pain, distinct from that associated with acute dislocations, is a serious complication of the condition and can be both physically and psychologically disabling. Easy bruising is common. Functional bowel disorders are likely underrecognized. Autonomic dysfunction, such as orthostatic intolerance, may also be seen. Aortic root dilation is typically of a mild degree with no increased risk of dissection in the absence of significant dilation. Psychological dysfunction, psychosocial impairment, and emotional problems are common.

    Diagnosis/testing. The diagnosis of EDS, hypermobility type is based entirely on clinical evaluation and family history. In most individuals with EDS, hypermobility type, the gene in which mutation is causative is unknown and unmapped. Haploinsufficiency of tenascin-X (encoded by TNXB) has been associated with EDS, hypermobility type in a small subset of affected individuals. Testing for TNXB mutations is available on a limited clinical basis.

    Management. Treatment of manifestations: Physical therapy tailored to the individual; assistive devices (braces to improve joint stability; wheelchair or scooter to offload stress on lower-extremity joints; suitable mattress to improve sleep quality); pain medication tailored to symptoms; appropriate therapy for gastritis/reflux /delayed gastric emptying/irritable bowel syndrome; possible beta-blockade for progressive aortic enlargement; psychological and/or pain-oriented counseling.

    Prevention of primary manifestations: Low-resistance exercise to increase both core and extremity muscle tone for improved joint stability; appropriate writing utensils to reduce finger and hand strain.

    Prevention of secondary complications: Calcium, vitamin D, low-impact weight-bearing exercise to maximize bone density.

    Surveillance: DEXA every other year if bone loss is confirmed.

    Pregnancy management: Labor and delivery may progress very rapidly, even in primigravid women. There is no clear advantage to vaginal vs cesarean delivery. Pregnant women with known aortic root dilation should have an echocardiogram in each trimester.

    Agents/circumstances to avoid: Joint hyperextension; resistance/isometric exercise can exacerbate joint instability and pain; high-impact activity increases the risk of acute subluxation/dislocation, chronic pain, and osteoarthritis; crutches, canes, and walkers, which put increased stress on the upper extremities, should be used with caution.

    Genetic counseling. EDS, hypermobility type is inherited in an autosomal dominant manner. Most individuals diagnosed with the syndrome have an affected parent. The proportion of cases caused by de novo mutations is unknown. Each child of an individual with EDS, hypermobility type has a 50% chance of inheriting the disorder. Prenatal testing is available on a limited basis if the disease-causing mutation has been identified in the family.

    Go to:

    Diagnosis .

    Clinical Diagnosis

    Clinical diagnostic criteria and a revised nomenclature for all forms of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS) were proposed by Beighton et al [1998] (click for full text). EDS, hypermobility type is characterized chiefly by joint laxity with soft skin and easy bruising, but other organ systems (especially gastrointestinal and cardiovascular) are frequently involved. EDS, classic type has more significant skin and soft tissue manifestations, but in mild cases may be difficult to clearly distinguish from EDS, hypermobility type.

    The diagnosis of EDS, hypermobility type is based entirely on clinical evaluation and family history. The criteria listed below reflect those proposed by Beighton et al [1998] as modified by the author's experience.

    Major diagnostic criteria should all be met to establish a diagnosis of EDS, hypermobility type:

    Joint hypermobility, which is often confirmed by a score of five or more on the nine-point Beighton scale [Beighton et al 1973], although some individuals with objective joint laxity score fewer than five points (see below for the sensitivity and specificity of examination for joint hypermobility). One point is scored for each of the following:

    Passive dorsiflexion of each fifth finger greater than 90°


    Passive apposition of each thumb to the flexor surface of the forearm


    Hyperextension of each elbow greater than 10°


    Hyperextension of each knee greater than 10°


    Ability to place the palms on the floor with the knees fully extended


    Soft skin with normal or only slightly increased extensibility

    Soft skin is subjectively assessed, preferably in an area in which moisturizer has not been applied.


    Skin hyperextensibility is assessed at a site lacking excess or loose skin and without evidence of prior trauma by gently pulling until resistance is met. An ideal location is the volar surface of the distal forearm or wrist, where the upper limit of normal extensibility is 1-1.5 cm. Extensor surfaces of joints have excess skin and should not be used.


    Absence of fragility or other significant skin or soft tissue abnormalities, which are suggestive of other types of EDS. Such findings could include:

    Spontaneous or easily induced skin cuts or tears


    Spontaneous or easily induced tears or ruptures of tendons, ligaments, arteries, or other internal organs


    Surgical complications, such as arterial rupture or sutures tearing through tissues and failing to hold


    Spontaneous wound dehiscence


    Recurrent or incisional hernias


    Significant skin hyperextensibility (>1.5 cm on the volar wrist)


    Thin, translucent skin


    Atrophic ("cigarette paper") scars (although mildly atrophic scars are sometimes seen in EDS, hypermobility type, especially in areas subject to physical stress, such as extensor surfaces and the abdominal wall)


    Molluscoid pseudotumors

    Minor diagnostic criteria are supportive of but not sufficient to establish a diagnosis of EDS, hypermobility type:

    Positive family history of EDS, hypermobility type (or family history of joint laxity), without significant skin or soft tissue fragility, in a pattern consistent with autosomal dominant inheritance


    Recurrent joint dislocations or subluxations


    Chronic joint, limb, and/or back pain


    Easy bruising


    Functional bowel disorders (functional gastritis, irritable bowel syndrome)


    Neurally mediated hypotension or postural orthostatic tachycardia


    High, narrow palate


    Dental crowding

    The sensitivity and specificity of examination for joint hypermobility is dependent in part on the individual's age, gender, and medical history.

    Young children (especially age ≤5 years) tend to be very flexible and are therefore difficult to assess.


    Women are, on average, more flexible than men.


    Older individuals tend to lose flexibility, and post-surgical or arthritic joints often have reduced range of motion. A history of former joint laxity or clinical demonstration of substantial laxity in multiple joints is sometimes accepted in lieu of a positive Beighton score in such cases, if the family history and other minor criteria are strongly suggestive.
  12. lastgasp

    lastgasp

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  13. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Hi Allyson;
    Here's a link to a basic recipe for bone broth written by Sally Fallon, who started the Weston Price Foundation, wrote an excellent cookbook," Nourishing Traditions", and many articles about nutrition.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/broth-is-beautiful

    I've been making chicken, turkey, and beef broth for about 5 yrs. now, and even though it takes extra work and planning, I believe it's worth the effort. The long simmering time dissolves the collagen into a more easily digestible form. ( I simmer the turkey bones for 18 or so hours, the beef, up to 50 hours.)

    On a personal note, I don't add onions to the broth because they become bitter with the long simmer time. Also, we have cats who love the turkey and chicken broth, ( I've read that onions are toxic to cats,( dogs too?).

    When I strain the broth, I use cotton turkey stuffing bags, so I can squeeze every bit of the liquid possible. (I pick the bones out first.) Roasting the bones, with some meat and skin really adds flavor, so I recommend that step highly. ( There's alot of gelatin in the skin.)

    There's not as much lysine in bone broth as there is in dairy, but it's still substantial.

    I make large amounts at a time, and freeze the extra. ( I use plastic tubs, been replacing the old ones with BPA free ones.) Glass containers are fine, but leave room for expansion, at least one inch.)

    The broths are also good to help heal the gut and digestion, along with the organs.

    There are many recipes to be found if you look up bone broth, and many nutrition experts such as Natasha Campbell-Mcbride, Donna Gates, Chris Kresser, etc. recommend them.
    Allyson likes this.
  14. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    Many thanks indeed Crux,

    that is most appreciated.

    I will start making broths as winter is now approaching - but i will be careful not to drink them too hot as that causes vasodialtion of abdominal blood vessels i think, thus worsening POTS symptoms.

    It is interesting you don't put onions in.

    The low FODMAPS diet that has been shown to be helpful for IBS indicates that onions, like garlic broccoli, cauli apple pears grapes and many other foods that have a high fructose- to - glucose ratio are very irritating for IBS and thus are best avoided.

    ( google FODMAPs or SUE SHEPHERD - dietician - for more on that - research done by her and team at Monash University Melbourne)
  15. VeganMonkey

    VeganMonkey Senior Member

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    Off topi: Crux, onion (and also garlic) is poisonous to dogs too.
  16. Allyson

    Allyson Senior Member

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    thnx; so is choloclat and paracetamol ( poisonous to dogs and cats )
    what is crux?
  17. VeganMonkey

    VeganMonkey Senior Member

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    The username of the person who was wondering if onions are bad for dogs is Crux.
    Allyson likes this.
  18. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I have one abnormal little finger but its only like that cause it got broken cause I got in the middle of a fight attempting to break one up.
  19. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Paracetamol is toxic to many animals... my daughter once thought her guinea pig feeling well and hence gave it a paracetamol pill.. needless to say she killed it.

    I know chocolate is quite toxic to dogs (I dont know about cats and that).
    onions are toxic to cats (i dont know about dogs there).
    macadamia nuts are toxic to dogs.. and I found out when a kitten I had ate just one (thou many animal sites only mention them being toxic to dogs), they are also toxic to cats..The kitten was throwing up for hours due to it and very sick.

    We really do need to watch what our animals eat.

    I have here house plants which are quite toxic to cats..but fortunately the cat I have here doesnt get up at all on the ledge where they are (lilly plants are toxic to cats.. daffodil plants and bulbs are toxic.. i think those may be toxic to kids too).

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