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Dr. Kerr, I presume?
Clark Ellis brings us a rare interview with British researcher Dr. Jonathan Kerr who is now living in Colombia.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Lipkin bad news folks

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by pollycbr125, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. TessDeco

    TessDeco

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    Yeah, I think they are having technical difficulties with the TWiV. It's not up on Racaniello's Podcast on ITunes either.
     
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Funny, I thought I was going to spend today feeling angry (because I was anticipating crappy UK media coverage) but actually I feel really happy! I was so impressed by the press conference and the attitude of the scientists. It's been a good day.
     
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  3. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    I shoved the full paper on it's own thread in case anyone wants to discuss once they've had a chance to read it all:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...between-cfs-me-and-either-xmrv-or-pmlv.19420/

    Just listened/watched the press conference recording (http://cii.columbia.edu/blog.htm?cid=tM5E7V). Thought it was pretty good. Let's hope some of the positives do get the funding required to see them explored more fully. I heard tell that some of the samples had already been accessed by two studies (or applications had been received) which sounds good to me.

    Old Lipkin is a one isn't he? 'Make some noise' he said. Well I guess that's what you gotta do to keep the government on it's toes and sending money in our direction. I also liked his positive endorsement in relation to (I forget the specifics) but that essentially the people he has tested are indeed sick...

    Dang me memory cell's misfired. Calls for a transcript I suppose. It's a wonder we have the time to be sick what with all this stuff we have to absorb. Far too confusing for even the likes of the Daily Wail and other less than credible newspaper sources too :)

    TWiV still not up and running? Darn. Oh well a good excuse to catch up with other things.

    MEA issued a statement: http://www.meassociation.org.uk/?p=12822 It would be welcomed I think to get an apology from those pushing the tests. Not that there would be one forthcoming I don't suppose. To do so would be to admit liability.

    I thought this article was better than some we have seen thus far: http://www.medpagetoday.com/Rheumatology/GeneralRheumatology/34812

    I wonder if Science and Cohen will be putting something together.
     
  4. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Oh and this analysis of the events from research 1st including the following explanation which was also covered by Lipkin at the press conference (and darn it I just realised we have another thread for the press conference! Oh bums):

     
  5. CJB

    CJB Senior Member

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    I just got to the part Fire - had to rewind and make notes. He said there was a tremendous amount of immune reactivity in a study they were doing in the late 90s trying to find a connection the Japanese had reported with a virus that starts with the letter B (sorry). He said 2/3 - 3/4 of the patient group they were studying had poly-clonal (sp?) B-cell activation. "They are sick. We don't know why they are sick, but they are sick." In response to those who were trying to paint this as a psychosomatic (his word) disorder. It's at right around the 29:00 mark.

    Good stuff.
     
  6. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Thanks CJB. I think the whole 'tone' of that part was to be welcomed. Indeed rather than this whole sheebang being dismissive and critical it has turned an otherwise (for some) negative day into a positive (if I may be so bold).

    Go Obama :)
     
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  7. CJB

    CJB Senior Member

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    That leads me into the next comment of note (IMO) at about 32:30. He says there is no question that leadership will respond to political pressure and then begins to talk about HIV and autism advocacy.

    If anyone still thinks that politics has no place in ME/CFS discussion, I hope they will listen to what he has to say. Getting more organized around this is essential. He also admits how very difficult that is for the chronically ill.

    I love this guy.
     
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  8. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    totally agree! he is great, and he snuck in a whole bunch of really good points!
    love him!
     
  9. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Yes, I am glad he says this;
    I feel very badly for Mikovits, [her co-author] Ruscetti and Harvey Alter [a hematologist at the NIH Clinical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, who led one of the CFS studies]. Mikovits in particular — she has lost everything. She can be wrong but she’s not a criminal. She has been honest in a respectful, forceful way and said that we have to conclude that we were wrong. You can imagine how difficult it must be, and I think she should be applauded. Lots of people wouldn’t have the balls to do that. She has come across as a scientist who really believes in the importance of truth.
    http://www.nature.com/news/the-scientist-who-put-the-nail-in-xmrv-s-coffin-1.11444
     
  10. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I agree, currer - we wouldn't have the future we now have if it wasn't for Mikovits, and we wouldn't have such a clean entry into it if she hadn't bravely admitted it's all over for XMRV and it's time to move forward to other lines of research. Very brave.
     
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  11. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    personally, i didnt care too much for most of the questions. i would have liked to see more about the studies going forward, maybe about the limits of sequencing and possibility of recombinant viruses.

    i liked lipkin. the fact that he admitted they found some unexplained antibody acitivity in a few samples, shows he is probably objective.
     
    beaker likes this.
  12. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i fully agree about mikovits. she has been villified and she is largely responsible for all this attention and research we are getting. sure, she could have been less vocal and more "responsible" but i know where that would have left us - in the same situation we were in 10 or 20 yrs ago - dying and with no hope.
     
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  13. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    Braindead Turnips at that. What might be the end result of 'weakness in the immune system'? An infection, perhaps? Maybe a treatable infection, if the useless doctors would look for them, instead of just 'treating symptoms'?
     
  14. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Yep no publicity is bad publicity.
    Visibility - that is what we have always lacked and has allowed the abuse of patients to continue on the quiet.
     
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  15. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    I think Lipkin and the others were quite clear in stating how this study was wholly aimed at attempting to replicate the results of Lombardi and Lo period. Even to the extent that they looked solely at blood (and not at tissues etc.) because that is all that Lombardi et al did.

    Indeed, I thought it was good to hear (not that it should have been necessary) how you can keep chasing your tails to try and close every avenue but that this would be largely pointless without something specific to go on (and the funding to do it).

    It was always about the specific hypothesis advanced by Lombardi et al. Always. Even the Lo et al study was a complication but was considered appropriate to follow-up on as it was related primarily to the Lombardi results.

    Think I'll try and transcribe that bit actually.

    All the other stuff relating to XMRV and e.g. Prostate Cancer is not relevant. Would be nice for others to tie that up and better explain those results but this was always about XMRV and CFS.

    Indeed now this paper is out and given the lengths they went to (apparently - I haven't read the paper yet) to exclude contamination - further work on the PC angle might better try to replicate those results (also dependent again on funding).

    Let's not forget this 'Lipkin' study cost $8 million bucks. $8 million. I mean. Bloody hell.
     
  16. currer

    currer Senior Member

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  17. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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  18. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    @CII722: XMRV & prostate cancer study will be released soon (not from us). We can't discuss specifics because of the embargo.
     
  19. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    XMRV and Prostate cancer are relevant. If its not in one its not in the other.

    My interpretation of the reason that Lipkin refused to alow the prostate cancer question to go ahead was because Dr Mikovits stated publicly that she believed there was a public health threat from XMRV .
    The prostate cancer researchers did not do that.

    So she needed to publicly retract to reassure the public and they did not - hence the pressure on her publications. Prostate cancer and MLVs can be safely forgotten without the need for added publicity..

    If research goes ahead on MLVs and prostate cancer we will know something is wrong.
     
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  20. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    You can never trust journalists.
     
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