1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
For Jody Smith, the ticking of a clock was enough at one time to chase her back to her bed. But with the passage of time, she has been able to reclaim her living room ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

link that shows XMRV is basically identical to man-made virus from the 80's?

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by markmc20001, May 31, 2011.

  1. Bob

    Bob

    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes:
    8,554
    England, UK
    From Judy's letter to the Science editors:

    They cannot have any data to support the
    conclusion "that laboratory contamination with XMRV produced by a cell line (22Rv1)
    derived from these early xenograft experiments is the most likely explanation for
    detection of the virus in patient samples. In fact, the authors of this paper know full
    well that this explanation cannot explain XMRV integration in human tissue, in situ
    hybridization, or antibodies reported in prostate cancer or CFS patients. Furthermore,
    all strains of wild rodents have not been examined and other examples of ancestral
    XMRV can be found
    .
  2. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes:
    60
    That's very nice, I missed that bit in her reply.
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,636
    Likes:
    9,708
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Hi insearchof,

    I am trying to reconstruct my old search on mouse encephalitis and the 1934 ME outbreak. Lets see how it goes. However, the comments by you effectively cover the same information I was looking at last year, its just the details of the compensation claims that are missing.

    1934 and later, polio related:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Armstrong_(physician)

    1935:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1759926/pdf/calwestmed00405-0069c.pdf

    1937:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2133518/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1753720/pdf/calwestmed00378-0019.pdf
    This particular article has a lot of details, but there is excessive speculation about female hormone dysfunction.

    1978:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2425322/pdf/postmedj00263-0008.pdf

    Here is a bit from one relevant thread:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...-can-infect-many-mammals-and-also-(wild)-mice

    Mark said (post 22):
    "The Los Angeles Outbreak (1934) occurred at Los Angeles General Hospital and was the 1st ME/CFS/CFIDS outbreak ever officially recorded. 200 members of the hospital staff contracted the disease and over 50% of them remained unable to work 6 months later."
    76 years ago.

    I discuss the two hit hypothesis in post 47 in this thread.

    Here is a blog from George on this:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/entry.php?467-My-Old-Mouse-Theory


    I am still looking, but while I am fairly sure I saved the newspaper scan, I have still not found it. It might take a while, presuming that I didn't accidentally delete it and did actually save it.

    Bye
    Alex
  4. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Great Bob. Your answer jogs my vague memory of what I read, but better yet, it lays it all out in an easy to read answer.

    Is it correct to say the WPI and Coffin are not disagreeing as to whether XMRV was created in a lab, but essentially the main point of disagreement lies in if XMRV is in people? Coffin alleges XMRV creation during lab testing. The WPI doesn't try and prove any actual method of XMRV creation, but WPI shows XMRV exists in patients given immune response and other testing?
  5. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes:
    60
    I am not sure the WPI believe XMRV was created in a lab, I think they also leave open the possibility that it was formed naturally. Man-made or natural, the WPI do think they can find it in patients.
  6. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Thanks for the clarification Jemal. WPI left the door open to how it was created.

    thanks
    Mark
  7. Bob

    Bob

    Messages:
    7,423
    Likes:
    8,554
    England, UK
    Alter and Lo took samples from the mid 1990's:

    "In the mid-1990s, we obtained serum and whole-blood samples from CFS patients for the investigation of possible mycoplasmal infections"
    http://www.pnas.org/content/107/36/15874.long

    I'm not sure how far back the WPI have tested blood samples.
  8. currer

    currer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes:
    769
    My understanding is that retroviruses recombine readily, so the Coffin argument always seemed absurd to me.
    Recombination is not a one-off event
    MLV fragments can link up with other fragments in a cell and create a viable virus. They do this easily because RNA copies itself with out much fidelity so adapts itself to substitutions and deletions it comes across..
    A DNA based virus cannot do this as readily but is more limited to copying itself exactly.

    Recombination is mutation, but a more rapid form You would get large changes, where retroviruses that meet other retroviruses swap halves leading to a quite new virus with unknown pathogenic potential.

    It is not the mutation of one nucleotide at a time..
  9. currer

    currer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes:
    769
    According to the pnas commentary on Lo and Alter, XMRV glycogag leader is 100% similar to the polytropic endogenous sequence of the 129x1/SvJ lab mouse.

    It must have come from lab mice or be a contaminant. It has not come from a wild mouse. Dr Coffins abstract at the first XMRV conference last year showed that he had looked in vain for a wild progenitor for XMRV.
  10. currer

    currer Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes:
    769
    As far as variability goes, my memory of JM at the IiME conference was that she said the true parallel to XMRV would be a virus like HTLV1 not HIV, which has astronomical replication rates.
    HTLV1 is often found in cells, basically the same as it was forty years before.
    Remember these retroviruses insert themselves into cellular DNA and then can remain latent. They would not necessarily go through many replication cycles if the cell they are in is not copying itself much.
    In this form they will be more stable so they do not get much chance to mutate.

    Please note about the last three posts that all this is what I remember from following the XMRV news. I am open to correction.
  11. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,031
    Likes:
    60
    Also HTLV causes disease in "only" 5 tot 8% of people. While HIV causes disease in almost everyone. So HIV attracts a lot more notice from the medical community and we have a far better understanding of that virus. Our knowledge of HTLV is lacking... let alone XMRV.
  12. chris123

    chris123

    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    Xmrv

    hi I was wonderIng if xmrv is the new HIV like virus and is transmitted the same way because I had all HIV symptoms and test negative
  13. boomer

    boomer Senior Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes:
    6
    cbc web site - Human, animal DNA mixing needs oversight

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/

    The first article is called Human, animal DNA mixing needs oversight
  14. tonydewitt

    tonydewitt

    Messages:
    51
    Likes:
    19
    Newark, NJ
    Chris, you could be infected with HTLV - it certainly makes you think that you have HIV symptoms.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page