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Knitting Equals Pleasure, Despite ME/CFS
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Link between Metabolic Syndrome and ME/CFS?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by Mark, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I thought I'd put a few links here from the website of one of my specialists.

    He calls insulin resistance the Pandora's Box of illnesses... as it can cause soo many different issues or coexisting issues with it. http://www.agale.com.au/PANDORA.htm

    Warning on the need to handle insulin tests correctly or results may end up coming in wrong http://www.agale.com.au/assay2.htm

    A couple of his CFS case studies which turned out to be caused by insulin resistance (note in the second one, the lady was in a wheelchair due to it) http://www.agale.com.au/CFS.htm
     
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  2. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    I have developed Metabolic Syndrome in the last 2 years. It has severely compounded the ability to manage my disease.
     
  3. Jody

    Jody Senior Member

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    You have my sympathy. I have found dietary changes have made a big difference in managing my metabolic syndrome, and a few supplements. It doesn't get in my way nearly like it used to though I have to make my decisions with it always in mind it seems.
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    The recent Lipkin (and Stanford?) finding of high Leptin strongly implicates that ME may cause metabolic syndrome, and possibly diabetes. It stuffs around with energy pathways and the brain regulation of energy pathways. If even thin ME patients have this, which I strongly suspect but has not so far been explicitly stated by Lipkin etc., then there goes the idea that only obese people get high leptin.
     
  5. Nielk

    Nielk

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    As I said in a previous post, I have been struggling with weight gain and water retention for the past two years. I was diagnosed last week with Diabetes ad have been put on a strict diet and Metformin.

    Has anyone heard about the fact that obstructive sleep apnea can cause metabolic syndrome and diabetes if left untreated?
     
  6. SOC

    SOC Senior Member

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    I think I read that obstructive sleep apnea can increase leptin, so there might be a connection there.
     
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  7. Bob

    Bob

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    I don't know a great deal about sleep apnea but I have heard that it is thought that obstructive sleep apnea can be exacerbated by weight gain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
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  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Might not just be high leptin but leptin resistance. Seems to go hand in hand with insulin resistance and circadian issues.
     
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  9. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    They never said anything like that to me when I was recently diagnosed with Apnea, Gabby.

    But I get my test for diabetes next week as you know, though the two were again not specifically linked. It was my incontinence and frequency of urination, that has led to the diabetes test - not that I expect a positive result.

    Like Bob said though, weight gain - especially around the neck - can cause or exacerbate breathing issues at night that can then lead to a diagnosis of Apnea. But really you need to get a sleep study organised - though with what you have been through lately I can understand if you don't want to yet.

    I do think weight gain and diabetes are linked. I also think that Rheumatiod Arthritis can play a part in swellings about the body - if what Mum tells me is anything to go by.

    Seems like - as in everything in life - more than one factor might be at play :hug:

    When I gave up smoking I added the pounds, and because of the ME I can't shift them as quickly as I would normally perhaps have been able. It is a bind and no mistake - especially when the clinicians are all geared up to recommend exercise at every single opportunity :aghhh:

    Still. I exercise as much as I can and I have yet to meet a clinician who gets in my face about it or about me doing more. But then maybe I scare them :lol:
     
  10. Nielk

    Nielk

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    See this link - http://content.onlinejacc.org/mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1699341

    This new primary care doctor that I went to yesterday explained to me this correlation which I never heard of before. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea 8 years ago and used a cpap machine for a while but was not comfortable with it and stopped using it. This doctor say that the newer models are more comfortable and even if I don't feel a difference, the cells in my body are effected. I am scheduled for a sleep study in a few days. I am sure that i have a problem because I snore a lot and keep waking up at night. This doctor says that he sees the difference in his patients who do use the cpap machine as far as their general health and especially glucose problems and metabolic syndrome problems.






    Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is an underdiagnosed condition characterized by recurrent episodes of obstruction of the upper airway leading to sleep fragmentation and intermittent hypoxia during sleep. Obesity predisposes to OSA, and the prevalence of OSA is increasing worldwide because of the ongoing epidemic of obesity. Recent evidence has shown that surrogate markers of cardiovascular risk, including sympathetic activation, systemic inflammation, and endothelial dysfunction, are significantly increased in obese patients with OSA versus those without OSA, suggesting that OSA is not simply an epiphenomenon of obesity. Moreover, findings from animal models and patients with OSA show that intermittent hypoxia exacerbates the metabolic dysfunction of obesity, augmenting insulin resistance and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. In patients with the metabolic syndrome, the prevalence of moderate to severe OSA is very high (∼60%). In this population, OSA is independently associated with increased glucose and triglyceride levels as well as markers of inflammation, arterial stiffness, and atherosclerosis. A recent randomized, controlled, crossover study showed that effective treatment of OSA with continuous positive airway pressure for 3 months significantly reduced several components of the metabolic syndrome, including blood pressure, triglyceride levels, and visceral fat. Finally, several cohort studies have consistently shown that OSA is associated with increased cardiovascular mortality, independent of obesity. Taken together, these results support the concept that OSA exacerbates the cardiometabolic risk attributed to obesity and the metabolic syndrome. Recognition and treatment of OSA may decrease the cardiovascular risk in obese patients.
    Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is an underdiagnosed condition characterized by recurrent episodes of obstruction of the upper airway leading to sleep fragmentation and intermittent hypoxia during sleep. Obesity predisposes to OSA, and the prevalence of OSA is increasing worldwide because of the ongoing epidemic of obesity. Recent evidence has shown that surrogate markers of cardiovascular risk, including sympathetic activation, systemic inflammation, and endothelial dysfunction, are significantly increased in obese patients with OSA versus those without OSA, suggesting that OSA is not simply an epiphenomenon of obesity. Moreover, findings from animal models and patients with OSA show that intermittent hypoxia exacerbates the metabolic dysfunction of obesity, augmenting insulin resistance and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. In patients with the metabolic syndrome, the prevalence of moderate to severe OSA is very high (∼60%). In this population, OSA is independently associated with increased glucose and triglyceride levels as well as markers of inflammation, arterial stiffness, and atherosclerosis. A recent randomized, controlled, crossover study showed that effective treatment of OSA with continuous positive airway pressure for 3 months significantly reduced several components of the metabolic syndrome, including blood pressure, triglyceride levels, and visceral fat. Finally, several cohort studies have consistently shown that OSA is associated with increased cardiovascular mortality, independent of obesity. Taken together, these results support the concept that OSA exacerbates the cardiometabolic risk attributed to obesity and the metabolic syndrome. Recognition and treatment of OSA may decrease the cardiovascular risk in obese patients.
    Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is an underdiagnosed condition characterized by recurrent episodes of obstruction of the upper airway leading to sleep fragmentation and intermittent hypoxia during sleep. Obesity predisposes to OSA, and the prevalence of OSA is increasing worldwide because of the ongoing epidemic of obesity. Recent evidence has shown that surrogate markers of cardiovascular risk, including sympathetic activation, systemic inflammation, and endothelial dysfunction, are significantly increased in obese patients with OSA versus those without OSA, suggesting that OSA is not simply an epiphenomenon of obesity. Moreover, findings from animal models and patients with OSA show that intermittent hypoxia exacerbates the metabolic dysfunction of obesity, augmenting insulin resistance and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. In patients with the metabolic syndrome, the prevalence of moderate to severe OSA is very high (∼60%). In this population, OSA is independently associated with increased glucose and triglyceride levels as well as markers of inflammation, arterial stiffness, and atherosclerosis. A recent randomized, controlled, crossover study showed that effective treatment of OSA with continuous positive airway pressure for 3 months significantly reduced several components of the metabolic syndrome, including blood pressure, triglyceride levels, and visceral fat. Finally, several cohort studies have consistently shown that OSA is associated with increased cardiovascular mortality, independent of obesity. Taken together, these results support the concept that OSA exacerbates the cardiometabolic risk attributed to obesity and the metabolic syndrome. Recognition and treatment of OSA may decrease the cardiovascular risk in obese patients.
     
  11. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    @Nielk

    I am using the CPAP at the moment - well, not right now, obviously! :)

    I was impressed with how well it works - how comfortable it is - until I smashed my face into the wall one night and did something to my nose that has affected by ability to breathe as easily via this route. My CPAP was the nasal one - by choice - as I don't breathe through my mouth as a rule. Hopefully the issue will resolve itself and I can get back to using the device, or change to the full mask option which might now be more comfortable.

    I'd only been using it tentatively for a couple of weeks before this incident, so it's too early to report any progress in terms of functional improvements but my specialist had also said of the success - and not so success - in patients he sees with ME/Apnea. About 50% he thought report improved function either with sleep quality or with improved daytime symptoms such as fatigue, morning hangovers, and even muscular pain/aches...

    Proof for me is in the pudding, so I shall patiently wait and see. But I was pleased to observe the results from my own sleep studies. Very interesting. And you don't have to snore to have Apnea of course, but CPAP can also help resolve snoring issues.

    Thanks for the info. all a bit too much for me to absorb at the moment but I shall come back to it :)
     
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  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I avoid apples because one small one has about 20 g of carbs.

    But a small orange only has about 10 grams of carbs.

    Obviously the size matters when trying to compare.

    I wonder why oranges are on the "high sugar" list? I like them because they have a lot more nutrients, including Vit C and calcium.

    But I too only eat one small one a day and then only after a protein meal.
     
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  13. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I would think you would also have to consider hormones like estrogen, progesterone and cortisol as well.
     
  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Exactly. When the drug industry wanted everyone to take statins.

    My doctor goes by the old rule of 100+your age/90 for high blood pressure.
     
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  15. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I decided to try very low carb again at the first of the year and had an interesting anecdotal experience.

    I ate less than 10g/carb a day for almost two weeks and could never get a urine strip to test positive for ketones.

    Then I had a stressful setback and ended up having to take a mega-dose of steroids. The next day, my urine strip was dark purple indicating high ketones.

    I continued the higher doses of steroids for a few days and the strips started to lighten up again - some ketones but much less.

    Then another stressful setback...higher steroid dose again...more dark purple.

    So clearly, cortisol is intricately involved *somehow* in producing ketones. Either too high or too low seems to throw me out of ketosis, no matter what I eat.

    So I think my blood sugar metabolism is dysregulated as shown by testing on a blood sugar meter, so I'm not producing adequate energy via that pathway.

    And I think my ketone pathway is also disturbed somehow due to hormonal problems - primarily with cortisol.

    Now I'm on a physiological steroid dose of 25 mg HC (tapering down again) and the ketone strips are consistently light pink. But still no blood ketones.

    No matter what the urine strips say, I can never get any ketones to show up in my blood.

    No ketones and no proper glucose metabolism equals no proper pathway to energy to me. And so all the food I eat must just end up stored somehow as fat. :(
     
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  16. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    ketones are the major fuel source on a low carb diet, small amount of glucose are made from amino acids.
    @Ema i am the same, very hard to get those urine strips to turn purple. I think my morning cortisol has taken a nose dive of late as i just cant get going for the first 2 hours, maybe a longer acting steroid so i have enough in my system when i wake up?
     
  17. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Interesting post. I dont produce ketones myself easily.. even eatting 15g carb per day. I was on the Atkins diet for a while in which one wants to be eatting at a point where ketones as produced (meaning ones body then is feeding on ones fat reserves) but couldnt get it happening. I guess in a world hunger situation if there was a drought where I are, I'd be better off but its not fun not being able to easily loose more weight just with diet. I wouldnt be at all surprised if our bodies are screwed up here too.
     
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  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    This site ranks oranges and apples as very similar in carb, sugars and fibre.

    (Per 100g)

    apple: carb total 12.9, carb available 10.7, sugars 8.11, fibre 2.2

    orange: carb total 11.5, carb available 9.5, sugars 8.2, fibre 2.0

    Maybe the acidity also needs to be taken into account?
     
  19. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I had acute hyperglycaemia and also urine ketones when I was not on a low-carb diet but had been through a lot of stress and overexertion. I had eaten very little due to nausea, and was feeling extremely ill. I also had near-life-threatening hyponatraemia.

    I do urge all who have excess abdominal fat to trying cutting out gluten if they haven't yet tried it.
     

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