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Let's talk Mucous

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Pea, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    Hi, my friend who I'm helping through methylation has this thick, stringy mucous in his head/nasal passages, goes into his throat. This has been going on for years, although it seems to have gotten worse lately.

    Monday he began some new supplements to help his dopamine and seratonin. Question is, would it be safe if he tried one decongestant (pseudonephrine)? It says do not take if you are on an MAOI inhibitor. I know that has something to do with dopamine, so would the pseudonephrine cause too much dopamine affect in combo with supplements, or would it cancel out the affect of the supplements? they never say WHY/which way for the caution.

    Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHY he has mucous. It's not a cold, he isn't itchy or sneezy. (He is grumpy tho, LOL).

    Seriously, it isn't a sinus infection - the mucous is whitish with beige in it, and he doesn't have pressure or a headache. He had a bunch of lab tests which I thought may point to some auto-immune thing causing the mucous, but nothing was positive.

    He does the neti pot, and takes Mucinex, drinks a lot of water now, and is reducing his dairy intake. Yesterday the mucous was really bad and he took an aspirin and said it was better.

    Will this mucous just clear with the methylation? By mucous having gotten worse, I hope that means the methylation is finally working, but that doesn't make sense.

    He also used to be on high doses of C but now only on 500 mg.; I'm wondering if that helped with it previously.

    In the past, every year around this time (March) he felt funky, tired, and his doctor would put him on azithromycin and he always felt better after that.

    Also I take an apple cider vinegar pill which really helps with my dairy-related mucous (the liquid ACV didn't help), but they now think he has high stomach acid so I'm leary of ACV for him.

    Any insights appreciated, or ask your own mucous questions.
  2. Kina

    Kina Moderation Team Lead

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    Hi Pea.

    Reagarding MAO Inhibitors. They work by interfering with the enzyme responsible for metabolizing seratonin, epinephrine, dopamine and norepinephrine. By binding to this enzyme they effectively increase the concentration of these neurotransmitters which in turn causes changes within specific areas of the central nervous system. When a person takes a decongestant (or eats aged cheese, or drinks red wine) when also taking MAOI's, it could result in a dangerous increase in blood pressure.

    Kina.
  3. Rosebud Dairy

    Rosebud Dairy Senior Member

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    Consumption of folic acid makes my mucous thicker.

    Not taking l-methylfolate enough throughout the day also thickens my mucous.
  4. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    thanks, Kina. I'm going to have him try one.

    In the meantime, I was looking up things relating to this, and I ran across H pylori... His new naturopath thinks he has H pylori. I am wondering if this is the cause of the mucous. There is some kind of inflammation going on in him, and this could explain it.

    We were already seeing his PCP Monday re: the head mucous and I'm going to ask about H P. Funny the gastro never tested for it, but why am I not surprised.

    He also used to be on a high dose of Vitamin C (ascorbate), and since reduced. Mucous seems to have gotten worse now, and so I think the C helped with the inflammation. His methylfolate was reduced too. I guess it could be a lot of things!
  5. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    His excess mucous could atleast in part be caused by an overgrowth of candida...possibly from the use of the antibiotic azithromycin.
  6. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Well, you are seeing someone who knows much more than I do about most of this stuff but the first things that come to mind are:

    1). No, I would never do pseudophed unless I was VERY sick with a horrible cold and couldn't breathe any other way. It won't disrupt most of the supplements they use for neurotransmitters but it is a stimulant and therefore bad for anyone whose "grumpy" as that will stimulate them more.

    2). Was he ever a smoker? after years in the ICU I have to say that by & large, smokers made the most mucous of anyone. And, if they moke for years, it just doesn't seem to stop until their airways heal over and the general rule of thumb is that it takes a year of healing for every year of smoking. This would mean 20 years of smoking would take 20 years of healing and if they cheat (almost all do and have just "1 or 2" a day)they perpuate the inflammatory process and damage.

    3) If he doesn't smoke, has he given up dairy? this seems to be a big one since there's a whole issue on the type of cows we drink from & any autism mom worth her salt knows about it. Alpha 1 cows are bad because we can't process the amino acids in their milk. This depresses glutathione, hence, getting sicker after drinking dairy with a cold, etc.
    Alpha 2 cows are the original cows we should of always had but they don't make enough milk so they were cross bred. However, we can breakdown their amino acids without losing glutathione so Jersey cows are considered safer to drink. Only trouble is, since they aren't nearly as lucrative, most farmers have Guernsey, Alpha 1 cows. they did a huge study on this in Finland and found kids who drink alpha 1 milk develop 50% more type 1 diabetes! Dr. Richard Deth also figured this out and presented this as our last autism conference.
    Since I live in California, I'm lucky to be able to buy St. benoit Yogurt and milk (our doc told me about it) made from all Jersey cows and we seem to all tolerate this just fine! I was amazed since I used to get so sick from regular dairy.

    4). If its a matter at all of not being able to get thicker mucous up, you might want to use Air Power, which is a supplement version of guifenesin that loosens up phlegm in order to get it out better. my kids are on it for their guts so it must help with several issues.

    good luck!
    Angela
  7. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    I can honestly say that H. pylori testing is the worst ever! we tested all 3 of my kids over and over with conventional tests and they were always negative. when I cleaned up their guts more and stool tested with a GI function test, it was positive for two of them.

    H. pylori seems to hide deep in the recesses of the stomach lining and this makes it very hard to test for it. plus, other bacteria seem to mask it somehow. It also messes up your stomach acid so that its high one day and low the next. If your friend has ever had an ulcer, I'd sure wonder about it! But just don't rely on the blood test or other ones they normally use. Although it doesn't hurt to check the blood test since a positive is helpful but a negative is not.

    angela


  8. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    Angela, you said the same things as Dr. April. :D

    My short reply is - he caught a cold!! First one in YEARS, so I am thinking the h-pylori is going away so that his immune system is not so much on overdrive ? I also read H-P suppresses the histamine reaction.

    I'm hoping Fredd will chime in as he seems to have had similar issues with mucous, and the white spots on throat etc.

    As for smoking - yes, he has smoked for years & years, he's greatly cut down.... However this thick mucous arrival coincides with his other symptoms occurring over the last 2-3 years so I have to think there is something else going on in his body. Also he has reduced dairy consumption, but in the 2 days after eating a pizza he said the mucous was better so I can't believe it's dairy.

    I hope the ridding of h pylori helps with the over-immune reaction and thus he won't have so much mucous to contend with. it seemed to be going that way with the cold, however on this new protocol his swallowing function is going backwards, so there are supplements he's no longer getting enough of, but that's another post.
  9. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Now I'm really thinking she's brilliant!

    I don't see how treating the H. pylori could help the mucus but who knows? Does she think it will? As for the supplements, she always reduces some when adding others, its her conservative nature. You are allowed to play around with it and do what he feels best at too. Although the trouble is, most people can't stand start up symptoms so if they have them with the increased supplements, they run faster than the wind! I know, She use to nag me about it but I didn't listen until I went WWWAYYYYY overboard with too many and landed in bed mode. So play carefully.

    I would think his mucus would be better now that he's recovering from the cold, whether he ate pizza or not but you didn't say when that happened so maybe it was too far apart to be related. Not knowing his other issues, I can only take a stab at the most common causes for mucus so had to ask about smoking. I hope she didn't assume it was the smoking though cuz ya never know. She's usuallly pretty thorough so hopefully has other things she's looking at for his sake. I would hope they'd have put a scope in him to check for the usual suspects like ulcers, cancers, tumors, and other stuff that can lead to so much trouble.

    Keep on keeping on and hang on in there, the road may seem long but nothing is better than feeling better!
    Angela
  10. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    It was MY theory that maybe the h pylori was causing the excess mucous by the body raising it's immune response, fighting it off. His neutrophils were highish. Of course we know how my theories turn out, LOL.

    The pizza was a week before he caught the cold.

    It's like there has been something going on in his body (besides the smoking) causing the mucous for the last 2-3 years. I first thought it was celiac but that was ruled out, then Lyme, then maybe an old dengue fever. She really didn't look in to too much more besides the smoking, but we have too many other things to cover, but I suspect he's waking up not breathing with this mucous and not sleeping well so it is a concern. He has been seen by 2 different ENTs for the throat issue with a CT scan, and his PCP did x-ray his sinuses, so I'm thinking we're OK cancer-wise, let's hope so!
  11. cat65

    cat65

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    I have had this same problem with muous for years. About a year ago I was scoped and the dr. said that I had an ulcer that must of healed itself. I was not postive for H-pylori or anything else, although he thought I had a lot of diverticulie for somone my age (45). Last few days I stopped taking my b-complex. I started adding B2, P5P and methlyfolate. I also take Omega 3, ACES, and magnesium. Until I started reading this post I didn't realise that the mucous has not been there for at least a day or two. It's usually so bad the only way to get rid of it is with a funny cough (don't want to get gross!) I have always wondered why I had this mucous problem and never got an answer other than, "well some people are just like that"... I am curious to see if anyone knows the answer.

    I should mention, when I was 16 I lived in England for a year and traveld throughout Europe. From then on I lived on Tums. Maybe all along I did not have enough acid when I thought I had too much. I had heartburn all the time.
  12. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Hi

    Two things - in post 6 you state that Guernsey cows are A1. They are in fact A2 and more A2 than Jersey cows which are rated second best A2 source. Goats milk is also a source of A2. Here are a few links that I just randomly googled http://www.naturaltherapypages.com.au/article/beta_casein_intolerance
    http://www.a2milk.com.au/faq.php
    http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009...ction-with-autism-diabetes-heart-disease-etc/

    Also regarding h pylori and mucus, a possible explanation could be as follows; h pylori affects gut health. The gastrointestinal tract is also a prominent part of the immune system. The largest part of the immune system in our body is in the mucosal lining in the gut. H Pylori can reduce stomach acid that that has detrimental flow on effects to the rest of the GI (insufficient stomach acid = less properly decomposed food passing through to next stage = more fermentation of food at inappropriate junctures in the digestive process = increase bad bacteria = impact on immune system via impact on lowering population of good bacteria . googling this will bring up a lot of sources including peer reviewed studies.

    So, if immune system is compromised due to GI issues, then that flows onto the nasal immune system and possbily mucous production.

    Sorry more links arent provided but I have come across the above extensively while researching another issue and did not necessarily save links but these are easily found.

    Best
  13. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Heartburn and/or GERDS are often thought to be caused by excess stomach acid when in fact the opposite ie low stomach acid is the cause. There is much on PR about this and a diy test for stomach acid levels. Search GERD and stomach acid on PR and you will find some useful info.
  14. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    hey Topaz, thank you for the info on the Alpha 1 & 2 cows! I can only get a hold of the Jersey cow milk so always reverse the gurnsey and Holstein cow's milk type and I'm glad you caught that. I need some type of mnemonic for that I guess since not having access means its never enough of an issue for it to stick in my brain. I also forgot about the goat's milk! we've always hated it so much that I didn't even consider it but other people sure like it so its always worth a trial and easier to get sometimes than the jersey or Guernsey!

    I still think that the HP causing all of the mucus is a huge stretch since the chances of him just now getting it and not having had it years before seems unlikely but as I suggested, anything's possible. Also, seems like some other problem, like the neurological ones leading to swallowing problem would be much more likely for alotta congestion too. You could make a case for just about any gut bug suppressing the immune system and leading to more congestion and I'm sure he has a heckofalot more than HP by now--we all probably do. But it sure would be nice if it were that easy and he suddenly had relief with HP treatment. I'd go after all of mine for sure! So please let us know if that helps, Pea, since I've had acid and congestion for years myself.

    In thinking about it more, although he probably wouldn't like this, the congestion is only bound to get worse with the methyl B12 and Methylfolate, etc., since detox (or as Freddd says, Start-up) often leads to more mucus production. I have a perpetually runny nose along with an irritating throat clearing thing every time I go up or start another one but figured I'd just have to live with it. You might not want to tell him this part though.



  15. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    Yeah, he said yesterday he hardly has acid anymore so the H Pylori is getting tamed (Yay!!) BUT his mucous was thick again so it's likely not just the HP. Unless the cold is in its end stages - I know for me the last couple days of a cold mucous is really thick. The Air Power has less of the guafison than Mucinex. We'll see. I hoped to reduce the mucous so he wasn't so nasally & hoarse and would sleep better.

    Cat, also look up H Pylori on this board - there's a thread I'm going to add to if I get time re: natural cures. My friend actually had a specimen tested for HP and it was negative, but he is seeing results with probiotics to get rid of it, so like Greenshots and our dr. says, it can hide everywhere so you may have it. Dr. told us that if you get relief from Tums its likely you have HP. And HP can continually change your stomach from not enough acid to too much acid.

    Also it can come and go - my aunt has HP, and she can tell when it comes back because she gets funny taste in her mouth then & she gets too much acid.

    Now I'm reading Mercola about fungi & wheat & mucous.
  16. cat65

    cat65

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    Thanks for this. My Mother had HP and had to take some heavy duty antibiotics to get rid of it. Then after that she ended up getting ericulosis (from a tick bite). She has had som many problems Iam beginning to think she did not get rid of the HP. From what I read here it seems it not that easy to test for.
  17. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Its ridiculous to test for! My kids tested negative so many times I was sure my doctor was wrong and they didn't have it. She kept after me to treat this with L. Reuteri, Yasko's HELX RNA, and Mastica but I felt pretty confident after the 4th or 5th stool test came back negative so I just ignored her. Then about 2 years after we started all this stuff, I got a GI function stool test and the HP tests were off the page! It just goes to figure since I ignored my doctor. Trouble was, by that time my son had actually developed some ulcers in his stomach and upper small intestine (he was only 5 years old!), which is what prompted the extra stool test. He even had a colonoscopy and his biopsy was negative so the GI doc swore he couldn't have it but after they found the ulcers, my doc insisted I either treat it or do the GI function test and Lo and behold, it came back rip roaring positive. I guess I learned my lesson there but it was at my son's expense. I still feel horrible about that and its been 4 years and he's beauitiful and autism free now!

    BTW, I was also very positive but used a nasty tea that my doc suggested (I couldn't afford all the others) and it sure worked! There's a guy who does an infomercial on it online, Youtube. But I had to get probiotics in first to avoid letting some other nasty bugs more prime real estate.


    Good luck!
    Angela




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  18. Pea

    Pea Senior Member

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    I read on Dr. Amy's board Serraflazyme (seprapetase) to thin mucous. I later noticed it is listed under H Pylori supports also.

    The pharamcy/herbal place didn't have any. the phamacist said however that Mucinex really only works on chest congestion, and that if you keep using it, it can actually create more mucous. Oy.

    What do people think about antihistimines? I don't like them for myself, but pharmacist thought maybe the mucous was an allergic reaction to who knows what (although he didn't say anything about an anti-hist).

    I know I got terrible congestion twice from breathing moldy wood chips and had to go on Prednisone to get rid of it. Allergy tests were negative for mold.

    Cat, here is an article on some natural treatments for HP - Zinc, zinc-carnosine, cranberry. Besides the probiotics of course.
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/jan2008_report_agingStomachs_01.htm?source=search&key=h pylori

    Somebody on the other HP thread mentioned the Mastica Gum too - is that a probiotic, or is it a separate treatment?
    cat65 likes this.
  19. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    That's not true about mucinex. There's a whole ton of research on that for cfs and a doc who uses this as part of the protocol in S. Cali. It helps the lining in the gut as well.

    The Mastica is an herb that can be ordered at holistic heal, it specifically addresses HP but is not a probiotc. It kills it somehow.

    Angela
  20. fozzaw

    fozzaw

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    Has he tried adding more potassium? Too much sodium or too little potassium will result in thicker mucus.

    Is he taking any potassium wasting diuretics? E.g. dandelion, curcumin, licorice, etc

    Is he taking enough B1? It helps retain potassium.

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