Julie Rehmeyer's 'Through the Shadowlands'
Writer Never Give Up talks about Julie Rehmeyer's new book "Through the Shadowlands: A Science Writer's Odyssey into an Illness Science Doesn't Understand" and shares an interview with Julie ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Lesser Known T2 Thyroid Hormone Activates Mitochondria

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by Hip, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    I ended my keto diet experiment today. It didn't provide any noticeable improvement, and caused significant increases in some other symptoms. It made my thigh aches return (they had been minor before the diet). It also made my temperature rise more than usual in the afternoon (it hadn't been up by .5C for quite a while).

    So, not for me.
     
    Hip likes this.
  2. Hyperflux

    Hyperflux

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    15
    Is T2 worth a shot if I'm already prescribed 100mcg T4 + 10mcg T3?
     
    Sancar likes this.
  3. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    T2 helps with my symptoms, taken once every 21 days. Neither T4 nor T3 had any similar effect. So yes, T2 can potentially help even if the other two aren't doing anything for your symptoms. Also, taking T4 or T3 might suppress T2 production in your thyroid gland. I didn't notice such suppression when I was taking the others, but that just might mean that I wasn't paying attention.

    If you have serious thyroid problems, I do suggest talking to your doctor about trying T2. He probably won't have any experience with it, but maybe he'd suggest extra testing to check for problems. T2 can suppress T4 production.
     
    Sancar likes this.
  4. Hyperflux

    Hyperflux

    Messages:
    26
    Likes:
    15
    Would it be a better idea to just try NDT instead since it's a combination T3/T4/T2/T1?
     
  5. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes:
    7,037
    UK
    If someone cannot swallow capsules or tablets (no matter how much they have tried to), is it OK to crush the tablets and swill down with a drink?
     
  6. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    If NDT is natural desiccated thyroid, I did try that. It seemed no different for me from T4, so I don't think it contains enough T2 to make a difference.

    As for crushing tablets, I see no problem with it. I split tablets when I wanted to experiment with dosage. If a drug comes in a capsule or tablet with a special (enteric?) coating to allow it to pass through the stomach before releasing the contents, then you shouldn't damage that coating.
     
    Manganus likes this.
  7. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    @Wishful , well the l-arginine is OUT. Just a little bit out of a capsule and I'm having a Twilight Zone moment (rather hours). Why would this do this to me? I've noticed things I try will often make me sleep/awake but neither and both, with dreams (?). I hate that.

    I bought something to help with digestion and it does the same thing.
     
  8. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    Did the deed and just ordered the T2. Hopeful. @Hip
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  9. Montana NAR

    Montana NAR

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    3
    Hi Barry

    I am currently taking 3 grains (195 mg) of WP Thyroid, a good brand of natural desiccated thyroid. I break the tablets in half, chew a half at a time, and let it absorb under my tongue (sublingually). I take the halves about an hour apart.

    I have been taking thyroid medication since I was 15 in 1969. I was a patient of Broda Barnes, MD, who would diagnose patients based on a clinical exam.

    Anyone trying natural desiccated thyroid should be able to take enough to benefit them, but not make them hyper-thyroid. If I take less than 3 grains, my lip splits, my fingertips and cuticles dry out dreadfully, and my hypo symptoms get worse. If I take more than 3 grains, my heart thumps relentlessly.

    In healthy people, the active form of thyroid is T3, and the precursor form is T4, which is supposed to convert into T3.

    Since I am chronically sick, my body produces Reverse T3. This blocks the active T3 receptors and really slows my metabolism to a crawl. Historically, we (humans) evolved in times of war, famine, sickness, etc. to slow the metabolism by producing Reverse T3.

    Synthetic T4 (Synthroid and generics) is a worthless drug, with the theory developed in the 1970s that one merely had to take this and the body would convert it to active T3. It's the most widely prescribed drug in the US and most people taking it get very little relief.

    Step away from the TSH test (thyroid stimulating hormone). Most doctors prescribe based on this test. They give you a dose of inadequate T4 medication and re-test you two or three months later, and readjust the dose... again and again. And you never feel better.

    Here is a link to a Dr. Kent Holtorf article written with a medical (rather than consumer-layperson) angle. He has written others at his website which are more layperson-oriented; however, this one is quite readable.
    https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/how-accurate-is-tsh-testing/

    There is also the patient website: Stop the Thyroid Madness dot com

    Everyone should be able to get this beneficial drug. It won't cure the CFS Monster Bug, but it may help to make you feel better!
     
    Tiger_Eyze, Helen and Abha like this.
  10. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    Paralee, I have no idea why l-arginine would have that effect on you, but I'm not surprised by it either. I think many of us have some unexpected reactions to foods, nutrients, and other such things. It's something to record and ponder about. Maybe you can figure out why you have that reaction, and can then predict other things you should avoid.

    For me, sugar causes abnormal insomnia. I'm not talking about chugging sugary drinks and eating sweet foods; for me probably less than a teaspoon consumed during the day is enough to screw up my sleep. I can tolerate some hot chocolate before bed, but haven't experimented to figure out my 'before bed' sugar limits.

    People who don't understand what CFS is really don't realize just how much it affects our lives. It's not just being unable to do physical activities, but some of us can't enjoy a donut or some other common treat, or socialize, or take drugs or supplements that other people take for granted.
     
  11. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    Regarding the medical community's 'Tsh high? Take T4.' response, One thing the CFS researchers might be able to do is show that CFS causes an increase in tsh (at least for some patients). I did tell some doctors that my tsh was probably elevated due to chronic neuroinflammation, but they didn't want to hear that, and wanted to push T4. Having a professional statement about elevated tsh for CFS patients would help avoid unhelpful pushing of T4.
     
    Abha, Paralee and Manganus like this.
  12. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    Thanks @Wishful .

    Oh, and my T2 should be here tomorrow.:woot:
     
  13. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

    Messages:
    657
    Likes:
    178
    England
    My T2 turned up earlier (given the very positive initial experience I had with NDT I thought it was worth a shot). In the last 8 hours I've taken 300mcg, apart from a heating sensation and initial redness in my hands and forearms, within the first hour or so of taking the first capsule) I can't say I've noticed anything which would indicate it does anything useful yet.

    I bought the UK 3.5 T2 linked on the first page, from predator nutrition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  14. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    @Wishful , thanks for that. It's incredible you can get your research down to that small amount of sugar. I'm not sure I have CFS, but I seem to fit with a lot of the members' problems, so who knows. It sounds like my note keeping, that I thought was pretty good, is going to have to get a lot more accurate.
     
  15. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    @Wonko , my T2 came a little earlier, I took maybe a tenth of the capsule, I am very precautious about anything, since it usually takes such a small amount in so many things to give me an effect.
     
    Wonko likes this.
  16. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    I doubt that my record keeping is all that impressive. I do record what I eat when, and any notable activities, but I don't record the food ingredients to milligram levels. If I had insomnia, I'd look for something unusual the previous day, such as having hot chocolate at lunch. I could check back on previous bouts of insomnia and look for similarities. Then I could do some testing to verify my hypothesis, and, if I wanted to, experiment to find out just how much it takes to have an effect. Trying to keep records more detailed than I have energy for would be counterproductive, since I'd just find excuses for not doing it. So, I suggest a balance between useful detail and what you have the energy to accomplish.

    I find that the most important part of my records is that without them I can't reliably remember what I did the previous day. Did I have oatmeal yesterday, or was that the day before, or three days before? I certainly can't reliably remember any correlations weeks or months previous.
     
  17. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

    Messages:
    657
    Likes:
    178
    England
    Observations so far......

    I'm currently taking 2 100mcg capsules in the morning, with food and 2 at night, with my evening meal. I've been having more problems staying awake during the day, , even with amitriptyline my ability to fall asleep at night seems worse (i.e. it's taking longer), but whilst trying to get to sleep I'm not as bothered as normal about not being asleep. Judging by my duvet, and the cats disappearances I'm much more active while asleep and my recall suggests my sleep is more disturbed, however....I feel less like a truck's been repeatedly driving over me all night when I wake.

    My brain fog "seems" to be a little less, definitely feeling more like doing things, not actually doing many of them yet, but it's getting there. This is similar to what happened initially when I started NDT, only less so, and taking longer (the NDT was a bit much in this respect, I was getting almost constantly PEM'd for the first few months because of the amount I was feeling able to do - somewhat counter productive).

    Main downside so far is I'm eating more, not in absolute terms I.e. not more per day, but I've had a few days where I have eaten as much as I would on an eating day, every day, I seem to have put on at least a kilo in the last few days, which would suggest that this stuff is not only making me hungrier more consistently but also that it's interfering with my insulin/cortisol levels.

    I've started back on NDT (1 grain per day to start) as well as the T2 and will see over the next few days if that counters the rapid weight gain. I'm also planning on starting iron, B12, Folate and CoQ10 tomorrow. If this stuff has a limited window of operation like most supplements then I want to throw as much at it as possible to try and help it do something useful.

    So far not impressed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 6:38 AM
  18. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes:
    113
    I didn't realize that T2 worked well at preventing trucks from driving on oneself during the night, but that seems like a pretty good thing to me. :)

    I'm definitely interested in the effects on you. It works differently for me. Taking it when needed makes a very noticeable reduction in symptoms. Apigenin has such a slight improvement for me that it's hard to tell if it's still working; I have to stop taking it for a while to see if there's any point in continuing to take it (or to order more).

    When I took the first dose of T2, it was a dramatic improvement. I thought I'd found 'the answer'. The benefits faded over the next few days, so continual supplementation just didn't work for me, and the answer wasn't as simple as T2 deficiency. If you find that the benefits fade, I suggest you stop taking it for at least a few days, and then try it again. For me, the period is three weeks.

    I've had the same 'limited window of operation' effect with a number of supplements. Prednisone was awesome the first two times I tried it: I felt totally cured. Cumin seed seemed equally or more effective than prednisone at first. The effect of cumin faded after a couple of weeks, and neither it nor prednisone had any noticeable effect after that. The same thing happened with a few other things. It made me wonder why my body was so determined to maintain this abnormal state. It also made me wonder if I did something wrong. Would cumin or prednisone have kept working if I limited myself to occasional use? Would it have kept working if I'd taken just the right additional supplement? I'm sure I could drive myself crazy if I thought about it too much. Oh for some expert advice on the issue... Hello expert CFS researcher, where are you?
     
    Paralee likes this.
  19. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    @Wishful , I don't know if it was doing anything or not. I had just started B1 and B2 and taking them at night, then after several nights of 4-5 hrs of sleep, realized that it was probably the B's, I can be really dense. So I took the B's and other sups this morning and tempted to take some more T2 tonight. But if that doesn't work out I'll try it again in the morning.
    I really wasn't surprised about the sleep because I go through those semi insomnia nights on intervals with no specific cause that I can figure out.
    I'm one of those where something will work for just a little while and then quit, and even turn on me. One time I took some 5 htp and DMAE together one morning and I had more energy and strength than I thought possible. Even my lungs, I could sing loud and on key...would've made an opera singer cry.....about 4 days later....natta.
     
  20. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

    Messages:
    407
    Likes:
    261
    USA
    Also tried the l-carnitine and went tripping! I had to do it by phone and the lady didn't tell me it had b6 and worst of all, the l-carnitine was methylated....cannot do methyl.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page