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Lesser Known T2 Thyroid Hormone Activates Mitochondria

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by Hip, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I just came across some interesting articles about the T2 thyroid hormone (3,5 diiodo-L-thyronine), which is available as a supplement.

    T2 has the ability to boost the fat burning energy metabolism in mitochondria (as well as reduce mitochondrial oxidative stress). Refs: 1 2 3 4

    Since Fluge and Mella's research showed that the glucose energy metabolism may be blocked in ME/CFS patients, boosting mitochondrial fat burning (an alternative route for deriving energy) might be a way to compensate for this blockage, and thus a T2 supplement could be beneficial in ME/CFS.

    Ron Davis thinks the glucose energy metabolism may be blocked in ME/CFS as well.

    Also, the fact that quite a few patients have reported substantial improvements on the ketogenic diet — a diet which increases mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation just as T2 does (see the study) — suggests that T2 could offer ME/CFS patients similar benefits to ketogenesis, without needing to follow the restrictions of a ketogenic diet.

    Here are excerpts from some T2 articles (note that these are marketing articles):

    Medical Information on T2: DIIODOTHYRONINE: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD



    T2 Supplement Brands:

    iFORCE TT-33 — £24 for 90 x 50 mcg capsules

    Antaeus labs: 3,5-T2 — £33 for 180 x 100 mcg capsules

    THYRO-T2 — $34 for 60 x 100 mcg capsules.

    RED BURNER — $32 for 90 capsules (but with the amount of T2 not specified).

    SAN Nutrition T2 Xtreme — £36 for 90 x 100 mcg capsules

    Note that some of these supplements contain T2 in the 3,3 diiodo-L-thyronine as well as the 3,5 diiodo-L-thyronine form. But apparently, only the 3,5 form has active effects.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  2. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    @Hip comes through once again, have you tried any of these?

    ETA: Spoke with someone on Reddit today who recovered to 100 from couch bound, gradual onset using thyroid supplements
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I just found the iFORCE TT-33 available quite cheaply on the UK eBay for £12, so I ordered some. I have in the past tried low doses of T3 (liothyronine), from 5 to 20 mcg daily, but did not notice much from that.

    But we will see if the mitochondrial effects of T2 have any benefits for ME/CFS.


    The advantage of T2 is that not only does it ramp up the fat burning route of energy production, which may provide ME/CFS patients with extra energy, but also, T2 does not seem to reduce natural thyroid hormone production to any great degree, so it should be possible to elevate your T2 to supraphysiological levels using supplements, without lowering your T4 and T3 thyroid hormones through feedback mechanisms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  4. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    Great, bookmarked, I look forwards to your results!

    Anyone else tried this before? And what is the side effect profile like?
     
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  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I think we are entering into unknown territory here, so it would be wise to start with cautiously low doses, and closely monitor yourself for any untoward side effects.

    This paper about T2 safety says that:
    So this seems to be saying that if you take T2 doses high enough to produce fat loss, then this starts to have suppressive effects on the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis (HPT axis). However, for ME/CFS purposes, perhaps you may not need to take the high doses intended for fat loss; possibly lower doses below the threshold for these side effects may suffice.


    T3 hormone also causes cardiac hypertrophy, and when people like bodybuilders use T3 for weight loss and fat loss (which they do with doses up to 60 mcg daily), they don't take T3 indefinitely, but just for a few months.


    Here is a Google search on the various names for the T2 supplements.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  6. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    I'm of the opinion of dug wallace, in that the vast majority of modern diseases are mitochondrial problems. I think it plays a significant role in ME/CFS/POTS and could be a way out.

    I have been using red light on my thyroid. Red light displaces nitric oxide from cytochrome c oxidase meaning oxygen can flow in and more ATP generated. I also think red light generates more ATP through other means.

    Red light has been used for a whole bunch of things including improving peoples hashimotos.

    I think it could be useful in conjunction with the T2...
     
  7. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @sb4, red light does increase ATP (see this post), but unfortunately this light only penetrates around 2 cm into the body, so it will not reach any of the organs or tissues deeper under the skin. Pity we don't have translucent bodies like jellyfish...
     
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  8. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    Im pretty sure it goes further. Shine a powerful red light at your fingers and it passes all the way through such that you can see all the viens.

    No doubt skin blocks a lot of it but you only need a bit to get through (1J/cm2) to do a lot of good.
     
  9. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    Dr Peatfield says T2 is found in natural Thyroxine supplement Armour.
     
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  10. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Whoopee!! MLM always says that the reason for T2 is undiscovered. I had read once the difference in the T's, but can't remember....most always the case. If it helps mitochondria it should be beneficial for the floxed people?

    I have read about B2 helping the floxed and maybe the overdosed people on B6 recover (can't remember about that one for sure). I am going to check this out.

    Thank you so much, @Hip !
     
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  11. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    Wringing my hands, I think I would go with the Thyro T-2. I wish they were in pill form instead of capsule so you could cut them down easier. If I do this, no way will I take a whole one on the first and even second time.
     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Paralee I have the iFORCE TT-33 I bought sitting in front of me, but won't be able to try it just yet, as I am currently testing another protocol. But I might sneak in just half a capsule of my T2 later this week.
     
  13. Abha

    Abha Abha

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    Hi HiP and all on this thread.

    I'm interested in your taking of IFORCE TT-33.I'll be watching for updates on that.It might help me burn off some unwanted body fat (T3 did that for me in past)
     
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  14. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Honestly the only circumstance this would interest me is if non-responders to thyroid (like me) report responding to T2. Otherwise it's obviously a poor investment... I'm not particularly excited in this as a PDH workaround but rather as a weight loss tool as the last poster just wrote, not that that's very novel.
     
  15. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    If it were obvious T2 was not going offer any benefits for ME/CFS, nobody would need to try it. But there is no crystal ball that can tell you this in advance. Experienced ME/CFS patients know that for all supplements and drugs, you can only really determine whether they are going to be of benefit for you when you try them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  16. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    I know very well. I'm talking about non-thyroid responders (like me). It seems like a very poor bet unless there are such reports.
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Please explain your thoughts and analysis. How do you know in advance that up-regulating mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation using T2 is not going be of benefit for ME/CFS? There are ME/CFS patients that have done well on the ketogenic diet, which like T2, up-regulates mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  18. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    I'm not talking about that. I'm saying I've been through at least 4 thyroid products that even in dangerous doses had zero effect due to unknown factors such as absorption, liver inactivation or product quality, and since T2 is such a similar substance it's rational to think it will be subjected to the same fate in my body. Now I'm not alone in not responding to thyroid products so this is a major question. So before I spend a dime I need to know 1) the T2 product is well-received in general and 2) typical non-responders like me get some effect from the product - before even questioning whether it may help with ME/CFS.

    Now the mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation itself is of limited interest to me simply because that use is inherently limited to mainly benefiting outside the brain and because there are already well-known substances that do that e.g. carnitine combos [well and another reason but I didn't expect to get this far into it].

    Edit: I keep forgetting we're writing it ME/CFS now [even though you just wrote it, lol]
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  19. Paralee

    Paralee Senior Member

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    @Hip , I think I'm going to order within a couple of days. I remember now that I read the T2 was for energy (and possibly some mood). The T3 was more to run the body efficiently. If you try it please post, but I don't see how a little bit would hurt. I felt so much better when I got on NDT. I'm trying to remember what was written somewhere about NDT not containing T2 but still escapes me.
     
  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I think you are right that T2 will not boost mitochondrial fat burning much in the brain. This is because brain mitochondria possess only low amounts of the beta-oxidation enzymes needed to burn fat (ref: 1). The brain normally runs primarily on glucose (and possibly lactate as well, according to new theories); but because of its relative lack of beta-oxidation enzymes, the brain does not make much use of the fat in the blood as an energy source.

    But T2 will increase fat burning energy production in the rest of the body, so may well help combat bodily fatigue and PEM issues in ME/CFS. And if the body is more energized by T2, that may indirectly benefit the brain.



    Carnitine helps transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial membrane and into the mitochondria for burning, to create energy, and T2 does this also. But in addition, T2 also increases the rate of fatty acid oxidation (burning) in mitochondria.

    See this study:
    And this study:
    So this suggests T2 increases both the rate of transport fatty acids into the mitochondria, as well as increasing the rate of burning of those fatty acids.

    L-carnitine though may well have synergistic effects when taken in combination with T2.
     
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