The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Less Sleep Relief

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by huesecon, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. huesecon

    huesecon

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    For a long-time I've noticed a pattern that if slept less than 8 hours but more than, say, 6, my symptoms the next day were less severe. And more than the hours per say, it seems less REM sleep made me feel better. Days where I would sleep in and dream a lot where usually accompanied by much greater fatigue and headaches. It's almost as if I need to get deep sleep to not feel totally fried the next day, but the more I sleep the more likely I'm getting more REM sleep--which harms me. Of course, I realize that observations flies in the face of what we know of the importance of REM sleep. B

    Now, I know there is a hangover effect that you get when you sleep much more than usual. This is not what I'm referring to. As long as I sleep more than 8 hours I will almost be guaranteed to feel crummy. Some of my worst fatigue crashes have come after a solid nights sleep. Fatigue episodes that last weeks.

    The only thing I can think of is that part of my condition is an overactive immune system. Less sleep reduces immune system activity. Strangely enough, I've had similar experiences with alcohol. There have been a few times where I have had a little too much to drink (I rarely do this) and to my surprise I woke up feeling great. Again, my only thoughts on this have to do with reducing immune system activity, though I'm aware of the interrelationship between sleep quality and alcohol consumption, so the second observation may in fact be the first in disguise.

    This isn't to say I feel great during these days. I'm still sick. Still get fatigued and have headaches. But something has been marginally improved. I've tested this by restricting my sleep, namely waking up earlier to avoid REM sleep. It does seem to be a pretty stable result.

    Has anyone experienced this?

    I should note, the first symptom I developed after getting sick was a total loss of sleeping ability. I've tried everything under the sun when it comes to sleeping and the only thing that gets me to sleep is amitryptaline.
     
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Have you tried changing the hours of sleep clock-wise? We have a diurnal rhythm and sometimes sleeping at a time that is not optimal for you can cause symptoms. I've noticed that if I can go to bed earlier and get up earlier I can avoid some symptoms--even though the hours asleep are the same number. This is not always easy though as many of us have sleep phase shifts toward going to bed later and getting up later.
     
  3. huesecon

    huesecon

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    Yes Sushi, certainly possible. Sleeping 8 hours shifted forward makes me feel terrible. Sleeping earlier and waking up earlier is much better for me. That said, I have tracked my sleep with a Zeo and less REM does seem to correlate with improved wellbeing.
     
  4. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    Do you have most of your REM sleep after 6 am?
    Do get most of your night sweats then?
    What sort of fatigue do you have when you first wake up after sleeping too many hours?
    Do you have chronic nasal stuffiness?
    Oh and do you ever get stuck in a looped dream where you think you woke up, but you didn't and you're still in the dream?
    Do you wake up from these dreams seeing grey patterns, spider like things, or smoke around the room for a few seconds?
    ...just curious.
     
  5. santi

    santi

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    Did you check that there are not electric/magnetic fields or electromagnetic radiation?
     
  6. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois Prairie ❀❤✿Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿❤❀

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    I agree that less REM sleep makes me feel better. However, reducing the hours in bed does not help. I have reached the age where I need to get up and go to the bathroom a couple of times/night, so know that I start dreaming early in the night. Staying awake in bed listening to the radio in the morning can make me feel a little better.

    There are indications from research that the brain uses sleep time for ‘maintenance’, so I am concerned that I do not get more non-REM sleep.
     

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