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LED red intranasal light therapy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Lou, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    My sleep continued to be worse on the third night after my one time use of the Vie Light. I had a wired toxic feeling all day yesterday, which did not go away by the evening, in spite of all my attempts to quell it with various remedies and some acupuncture. This wired feeling was similar to what I get when I've taken too high a dose of methylation supplements, which I haven't taken at all these past several days to make sure THAT wouldn't complicate matters. It made me wonder, though, if the Vie Light's stimulation of my brain could have revved up methylation (via the HPA axis) and pulled out some heavy metal toxins. That could be what caused me to become so wired these past three days. It's my best guess as to what's happening.

    I called the company rep yesterday to ask specifically about how common overstimulation symptoms are. The guy I spoke with told me that "the Vie Light does NOT cause overstimulation." He said, "It had to be something else that did that." :rolleyes: (He obviously has not dealt much with hypersensitive people, where ANY symptom is possible at ANY time.) I told him that I had not done anything differently in the past few days, and that the symptom of being very wired and overstimulated began within an hour after my 15 minute use of the Vie Light on Thursday. I also told him I suspected that the Vie Light could have caused some detoxification symptoms, by increasing methylation. He said "NO, it couldn't do that," insisting again that the Vie Light could not cause overstimulation or detoxification. Then he went into the same speech he gave me Thursday, about how the Vie Light works to balance circadian rhythms in the brain via the pineal gland, and how it regulates the sleep/wake cycle, and how it increases mitochondrial functioning... etc. He didn't let me get another word in edgewise, and ended by suggesting that I try the Vie Light at least 4 or 5 more times to see if I get the same reaction. (I don't THINK SO! is what I wanted to say at this point, but instead I simply said thank you and goodbye.) This guy apparently did not get it how VERY uncomfortable this reaction has been, and unfortunately wasn't in the least bit interested in hearing about it. Like most company reps, he was primarily interested in telling me all the good things about his product and how well it works, and how minimal side effects there are. Very typical and predictable, but not very scientific, considering that the Vie Light is a product that aligns itself with "40 years of scientific studies on low light therapy."

    I will continue to mop up the toxic overstimulation left behind by the Vie Light, and see how long it takes to get beyond this mess. I will keep you all posted.
    Asklipia and Lou like this.
  2. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    First, it is only coincidental this post not only closely follows Asklipia's numerically but also somewhat with regard to content. Dreambirdie sort of served as the 'canary in mine' for me even though my initial response was half blind and wholly less than sympathetic, sorry DB. And it must have been highly frustrating to have spent your money yet again on a promising treatment only to find it not helpful, but in your case, also a setback. Get better, soon.

    Secondly, this is not leading to any renunciation of red LED treatment, just another caution added to those of others here. When I find something that helps I tend to hold the accelerator down even though the braking system may be scorching the tires such that even Stevie Wonder would see the smoke before I do. I finally admitted the 'smoke' Saturday after again using the light in the navel the night before to fall asleep. I was so wired/tired yesterday no doubt remained that sweet Vie was getting kicked out of bed. Not forever, just that our relationship was going to have to have more room(this getting weird, am I overdoing the metaphor?) At any rate, I'm going to use it more sparingly and hopefully retain the gains without the overstimulation on which we should keep an eye.

    And it's possible we may be in a special category as to use of this light, one not studied in previous trials. Remember Cheney says our bodies are compensating in many ways to keep us alive. That, for example, t3 (at least for some subsets of us) supplementation can be toxic for me/cfs. There's anecdotal evidence here that the light is raising thyroid hormone, thus our overstimulation. Also, why are some getting headaches? Something else we need try and figure out.

    So, thanks Dreambirdie and others here who have been cautious, I finally see de light.
  3. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Thanks Lou for your kind words. Yes, it's frustrating to have yet another thing to add to my list of "detrimental" remedies. But unfortunately when something claims to have the potential for possibly improving sleep, I am one of those suckers that is born every minute. o_O I would try ANYTHING for better sleep, but alas, so far only 99% of them have failed me. And the ones that haven't only work sometimes.
  4. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    LED 633 nm trial - Day 29

    For the third night last night I did not use the LED. I slept very well. This morning, still a lot of energy. Spectacular rashes of the last days are fading out. I managed the exercise no problem, with pleasure. And a 1 km swim and 1 hour in the sun and cooking for lunch, all before 11 am.

    leela You are right about no chin-tuck for number 6. Number 2 I think is exercising and stretching the SCM. As to pranayama all the numbers are perfectly balanced and the whole exercise does not push us into sympathetic mode. Numbers 1, 3, 5 are by both nostrils at once, number 2 and 6 alternate nostrils, and number 4 which is naturally right nostril exhale (because of the compression of the right lung when exhaling = sympathetic stimulation to go with powerful stimulation of the sympathetic pump behind the heart), carefully ends up on breathing through the mouth (parasympathetic stimulation) when saying the mantra (fairly impossible not to breathe through the mouth at this point).
    So this exercise brings about detox WITHOUT bringing on an imbalance and leaving us in overstimulation.

    Another interesting point is that the exercise brings about not only detox through the liver by bringing the lymph to the left subclavian vein that will bring it to the liver eventually, but also a direct detox through the lungs. All that spitting goo is really forcing lymph out through the lungs, bypassing the liver stage. This is huge for us because a big part of the problem is that there are too many toxins around for the liver to process.

    Dreambirdie I am so sorry too you are feeling unwell. Sometimes I reproach myself for being kind only in works, and not enough in words. Even though you may be suffering now, what happened has been very valuable for us and your insight into the red light bringing about methylation is fantastic information.
    Also because it could very well mean that blue light is a methylation blocker!!!! The various possibilities this opens should be very interesting for us!
    I am also sad about your sleep and your inability to get better sleep. I send you lots of love and peace.:hug:

    Lou I am very thankful you started this red LED thread. And I think that the LED is a very powerful tool.
    I feel well today after 3 days without it but I do not think I would have had such a fast breakthrough with my exercise without it. My back has changed and is now like it was when I was 35!!!! This is amazing in less than 3 months practice!!! The last month especially, when I was also using the LED, has been spectacular.
    I now understand that I thought when I was 35 that I was fine, but I wasn't!!!! I now understand that there is another way to go, towards my back when I was 16, and that this road does not stop there, that I can most probably fix problems I had as a child. Hope is one thing, the availability of extra strength here and there to achieve my aims is a blessing. Not to be used too often, of course :)
    I know I have to use the LED again, because today the mosquitoes are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( Not back in the house, but back biting me. Meaning my aura is not bright enough to repel them. Not enough B1 as some others would say.
    But I shall not use it today because I want to try the LED in the morning. So this will be tomorrow as it is I think too late already.
    Lots of light to all!
    Asklipia
    anne_likes_red and Dreambirdie like this.
  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Couldn't increasing mitochondrial functioning cause detoxification overload.
    anne_likes_red, leela and Asklipia like this.
  6. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    " the Vie Light works to balance circadian rhythms in the brain via the pineal gland, and how it regulates the sleep/wake cycle,"

    This implies that the people who will get better sleep from the Vie Light are the ones with circadian rhythm issues. Mine is normal; I just wake up a lot during the night.
    Little Bluestem and Asklipia like this.
  7. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    Circadian rhythms influenced via the pineal gland involve the whole endocrine system, so there's potential there for all kinds of adjustments/stimulation I'd think?

    Really valuable insight and sharing from all those in the 633 club!
    Dreambirdie, how frustrating for you - hope you're feeling better now?
    Asklipia to carry the methylation theme further...my understanding is blue light later in the day, simulating longer days and summer-time, "pushes" the glycolitic pathways (this makes sense because carbohydrates are more abundant in summer) ...and this comes at some cost* to methyl donors. Circadian/seasonal/light/temperature relationships to methylation are interesting.
    *This cost is appropriate in season. As are mosquitos, obviously! Preferably ones that keep a polite distance.;)

    Best to All
    Anne.
    Little Bluestem, Lou and Asklipia like this.
  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Dreambirdie -- have you had one of those salivary cortisol tests recently? The ones where you test at four different times throughout the day? Just wondering if your cortisol is high, or too high, at night?

    Also, are you still taking high-dose pantothenic acid? I'm not sure if this would be applicable, or even if the person I consulted with knew what she was talking about, but 2 years ago when my cortisol was too high at times (and I think still is) told me to stay away from B5, because she said it would just stimulate the adrenals further, and mine needed to calm down. According to her, I was in adrenal 'burnout', which was/is (again according to her) different from the later stages of adrenal 'exhaustion'.

    ???
  9. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Dan. No I haven't had a 4X cortisol for a while. I keep waiting to be more stable.... :rolleyes:
    And no I haven't take the B5 for several years. I take some other things and rotate them.
    My sleep problem is really much more about these 2 major issues: the chronic viruses (probably one or more of: EBV, CMV, HHV6 etc) disrupting my nervous system and brain, and the heavy metal toxicity. Whenever they act up, my sleep goes to hell.

    ON TOP OF IT.... I now have the added burden of ALL the roads in my neighborhood being tarred this week AND I found out today that I need a root canal. Isn't life just a barrel of fun. o_Oo_O:ill:
  10. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Hey DB, it's a *good* thing you are willing to go to any lengths to be well! Sorry this one was a bust for you.

    It's neat that Asklipia expressed gratitude to Lou today for starting this thread because last night as I was falling asleep, I wrote a post in my head about what a great thread this has turned out to be, starting with the little light and radiating out from there :)

    I skipped the light for three days, and felt ready to do it again today. I noticed the less-interrupted sleep benefit (sorry non-sleepers!) lasted right through the period of not using the light. My circadian rhythms have been wonky, yes, but I usually wake up absurdly many times at night as well, and this light business seems to be addressing that, no idea why. I do still wake up feeling poisoned and beat up, like before. So I am sleeping more continuously, but clearly still not doing what normal people do when they sleep, darnit.

    Asklipia, when I was talking about the no-chin-tuck, I was referring not to the exercises, but to going outside to palm and sun my eyes. Head tilted up a little towards the sun, face going shoulder to shoulder so the eyes get sun from periphery to periphery through closed lids. Then the palms cup over the eyes and look for black, going back and forth between sunning and palming for a while.

    I wonder if I've been doing number six wrong too! I've been doing half circles bringing the chin towards the chest in between. It feels fantastic!

    I touched my own upper arms yesterday and holy cow! Just from this short time of doing such tiny timings of the exercises, I have way more muscle tone! Bonus! I am really loving the exercises a lot.

    I'm really sorry if my posts are nonsensical, and for misreading a lot. I'm in a crash-within-a-crash and noticing some
    significant cognitive difficulty. On the other hand, the inner feeling of growing strength is noticeable, and I'm willing to divert (temporarily!) a little brain power to the healing power, if you're willing to bear with me :oops:
  11. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    I am doing this too now! Thanks!:)

    Fine

    Yes, my (small) batwings have gone!!!!! Isn't that nice? They most probably were full of useless lymph!
    At the moment, because of this major spine readjustment, I feel throttled by a giant's hand!!!!! :( As though my thyroid was pushed back. Uncomfortable, BUT no other wild thyroid symptoms. In fact softer elbows, meaning thyroid function is fine.

    LED 633 nm trial - Day 30
    Just used the LED 7 am on my bellybutton. Plenty of energy. I am off to the top of the mountain for some sungazing.
    Maybe there will be hell to pay later but for the moment, it is glorious.

    Good luck to all!
    Asklipia
  12. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    For our little homemade trial you have to report the bad along with the good. I'm still wiped out from Friday night's double use of the light (used it for long time on sinus, thyroid before placing at navel whereupon promptly fell asleep, got another full 25 minutes).

    My less than optimum cognitive functioning feels like it's been run over by a freight train. Already faulty connections up there scattered to who knows where. Seriously, without a real effort to try and think, the brain waves seemed to be zeroed out.... well, on zero. (think it's been five or more minutes now trying to come up with next sentence) Oh, yeah, don't do what I did.

    And I haven't been sleeping nearly as well. At least that got me to thinking of the Beatles and the best ever two-minute-long song, Golden Slumbers. IMO, they just don't make lullabyes like that any longer.

    I'll report again when more in Harrison's mood: Here Comes the Sun
    Asklipia likes this.
  13. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Ewww. Maybe you can get out of the 'hood for a week or so?

    My dental (or lack of) history is long, and the needed corrections are long overdue. Just confirmed that I still have some pieces of amalgam in several teeth...which I thought was removed 20+ years ago.

    Yup, a barrel of fun.
    Asklipia, Sparrowhawk and Dreambirdie like this.
  14. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    LED 633 nm trial - Day 31
    Yesterday I used the LED 7 am on my bellybutton. Then I went for a walk.

    When I came back I found a friend with her suitcase sitting on my doorstep. She was in transit at the airport and had just decided on impulse to come over and visit.
    A LED effect? Still, it is a bit strange.
    While cooking breakfast for us all, I thought I was being stung by a bee on my left calf. The pain was very bad but there was nothing left of the insect at the site. Then I started feeling the same kind of pain on my left knee. I thought there was still something biting me, I rushed to the bathroom, took off my clothes which I threw in the washing machine and had a long shower. The pain was quite sharp. Then I started to have bright red burning spots appearing on my body, burning like hell, the size of dried apricots, in lymphatic system places : over the gallbladder, on the backbone at the waist, over the right shoulder, on the right nipple, in the right armpit, in the right palm, at the outside corner of he left eye, in a couple of places under my hair, on top of both ears (extra painful) but inside where the cartilage curls.
    It was all extremely painful, like chemical burns, maybe more painful because it was at many places at once.
    All that subsided during the day or turned into normal rashes, except for my left calf, which by night was about 50% bigger than normal, and hurting deeply.

    I ate a rice pudding around 4 pm, and as the liver was starting to work on this, a couple more rashes appeared.

    When I went to bed the leg was hurting so much I thought I wouldn't fall asleep. My chest felt strange, my heart was racing (at 85 per minute instead of the nice 60 very handy for measuring time that I get normally). To forget the pain I took 20 mg codeine phosphate. I slept very very well, maybe because of the codeine phosphate. This morning after 11 hours sleep (sorry for those who live sleepless), which for me is exceptional, my left calf still hurts and is about 20% bigger than normal. The rest has gone. Vision a little less blurry. The mind is very clear. Chest feels normal.

    I think the LED is helping the exercise to get rid of long stored toxins. Not only am I getting new shoulders and a new neck, but I am also getting rid of whatever was stuck where it shouldn't be.

    This implies :
    - no use of the LED if I am not doing something to get rid of those toxins in a lymphatic way;
    - no use of the LED until all pimples/rashes/bloated calf are back to normal;
    - continued practice of the exercise (I only did 3 mns of number 2 yesterday because of all my adventures).

    Lou Take care! :hug:
    Lots of good wishes to all
    Asklipia

    I forgot : no mosquitoes dare approach me :)
    Lou likes this.
  15. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Happy to report things are better today. It seems almost Carl Jung synchronistic that lymph drainage yoga exercises have weaved their way to the extent they have into this thread. They really helped me yesterday. Brought me out of a stupor stuck in since overuse of the LED light last week. It was an immediate and distinct 'clearing of the mind' after doubling up on the number of repetitions of the exercises (not a jump Asklipia would likely recommend, but I just went with a feeling it would help, sort of a do-something-even-if-it's-wrong thought process). And it worked. Made for a very relaxed, mellow evening, spent much of it out on my deck, just 'thinking'.

    It's become obvious we don't react according to the norm in other red LED light studies. Those showed few negative reactions and the ones reported were fairly innocuous. From Dreambirdie, leela, sushi and others, to now Asklipia and me, too, there's evidence we're different (now, there's a news flash), and I think what I'm getting at is that perhaps these particular yoga exercises act as some kind of serendipitous modulator for us.

    Dreambirdie Not suggesting you try the LED light again, but what about the yoga exercises? Think they might help?
    Asklipia likes this.
  16. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    It's getting a little eerie the similar and somewhat strange symptoms Asklipia and I share. First, the left jaw swelling, and now this new occurrence for her that happened to me probably two years ago. I suppose it could be explained by us both having ME/cfs, and the things we're willing to try in order to rid it.

    One evening about two years ago I was headed home in my car when --just below the kneecap-- something stung the heck out of me. "Sonavabi#%#! I got a bee in my pants!" I slapped at it so hard no little bugger could possibly survive. Driving on, I was thinking how strange that was when I got stung again, not far from the first site. "Sonavabi#%#! I got two bees in my pants!" Whrap, and figured I got that sucker, too (actually like bees, just not in such close quarters). At this point I considered pulling over in the pitch black and seeing what was going on. This was crazy. But I drove on and near my house I got stung again.

    Running inside, I tore off the blue jeans and discovered not only did I have no bees, there was also no evidence of any telltale sign of a red sting mark. Only the fading palm mark of my right hand. It's probable we all, at one time or another, have thoughts of a shade insane, but I seriously considered the possibility of myself full blown crazy that night. It was disconcerting (like crazy) because there simply was no viable explanation. Until, perhaps now. True story. And quite like Asklipia's except I didn't have any noticeable swelling that I recall.

    Thanks, Asklipia, your willingness to share the strange is revealing/explaining some odd things to me.
    Asklipia likes this.
  17. Mr_GreenTea

    Mr_GreenTea

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    I've found this thread quite fascinating and am considering purchasing the LED device despite it's hefty price and finding some alternatives although in laser version.

    I saw on the website they offer a different version at a higher wavelength at the 810 NM Measurement, which is supposedly more effective in stimulating the brain healing response. I was curious why everyone here has decided to go with the 633 NM, although it is almost 200 dollars cheaper!

    Oh, and if anyone could point me to the read in which properly discusses the exercises oft mentioned here I would also be grateful. Or shall I just look up Carl Jung, Lymph drainage exercises?
  18. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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  19. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Carl Jung was a famous Swiss psychiatrist whose discoveries about the psyche were revolutionary and whose work has nothing to do with lymph drainage exercises.

    JUNG--pursuing the inner images.jpg
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  20. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

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    Hi Mr_GreenTea, I chose the 633 nm because someone else was already using it and I wanted to use the same, so as to make the observations on the use more valid.
    I am trying to advance the knowledge we have of this disease, even if it is by baby steps.
    We may be suffering now, but there is some value in this if we can discover enough to stop others suffering later!:)

    EDIT : Also because I read here reasons for a preference for LED and for 660 nm light : http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=20000102232338

    Good luck!
    Asklipia

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