1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
9th Invest in ME International ME Conference, 2014 - Part 1: Autoimmunity and ME
Mark Berry begins a series of articles on the 9th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London, with a look at three presentations on autoimmunity
Discuss the article on the Forums.

LED red intranasal light therapy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Lou, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes:
    2,689
    Couchland, USA
    thanks! arrghh, pricetag!
  2. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes:
    1,561
    Midwest, USA
    Was he talking about the LED when he said not to point it at people or animals?
  3. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    LED 633 nm trial - Day 2
    So yesterday I used it in the day (3 pm), not at night (no sleep problems) in the left nostril.
    Last night I felt a definite effect showing something is happening in the blood to make it reach farther. Tingling in the eyebrows, some blood coming out near a tooth, a vague "boiling" of the blood. Very similar if not identical to the Bohr effect when going to hypoxia.
    In the morning there is evidence of some cleansing having happened. The areas beneath the ears are considerably emptier. Upon waking and moving the eyes, I heard very faint noises similar to what happened at the beginning of B2 supplementation.

    Today I shall use it at 10 am in my closed right hand, where I have a very small nodule (Dupuytren) that appeared after unscrewing a tight lid (ARGHH) a couple of months ago. I thought it would go away on its own but it hasn't yet.
    Since there are doctors treating Dupuytren's contracture with red laser application, why not have a try?
    To be continued...
    Be well!
    Asklipia
    Wayne likes this.
  4. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    Good idea. Please advise if you manage!
  5. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes:
    2,689
    Couchland, USA
    Wayne and Asklipia like this.
  6. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    Interesting!!!!

    LED 633 nm trial - Day 3
    Yesterday all day I felt like drinking a lot more water than usual. I was not really thirsty, it was just a compulsion towards a pleasure.
    Also I felt a couple of small pieces of calcification leaving the base of one tooth.
    Something in the domain of electrical reversal.
    I had a lot of energy all day and lots of things happened. At the end I was tired but not exhausted. But I did not sleep very well, waking up once in the middle of the night.
    So today I shall apply the light just before bedtime.

    In my right hand again, as it seems to me that the nodule has softened! Difficult to be sure, but by holding my hand under a powerful lamp this morning I saw just a faint bruise, yellowish-blue, in a triangle shape, one point on the nodule, the other two at the base of the pinkie and the ring finger. As though the nodule had "bled" away.
    I am hopeful!:)
    Lots of good wishes!
    Be well!
    Asklipia
  7. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    267
    southeast US

    No, that regards lasers, the name, itself, indicates otherwise. I think maybe some good things are happening, but will wait a few more days to help rule out just a cyclical good spell. Fingers crossed.
    anne_likes_red and Asklipia like this.
  8. Vordhosbn

    Vordhosbn

    Messages:
    28
    Likes:
    19
    UK
    I'm only (slightly) familiar with lasers, but I recall a focused beam of 5mW or above is hazardous to the eye. So 170mW in laser terms is very powerful. I don't know the equivalent LED safety classifications; apparently they're safer. The Vielight models are between 5-10mW (http://www.vielight.com/safety-and-side-effects/).

    At least with the commercial version one would assume the nose clip must be well designed. I wouldn't really know where to start recreating that. Being so close to one's eyes I would want to be very sure, especially if it were a laser.

    I bought a Chinese-made laser pointer to try for similar purposes (On skin, thyroid etc. after reading a blog). It was supposed to be 5mw, but I had someone check it and, depending on the batteries, it recorded anything up to 10mW. Apparently that's typical of the cheap Chinese models. Maybe there are LED equivalents, if you don't mind sat sticking a pen up your nose.

    Look up the safety regulations though before anyone thinks of trying a DIY version. It is reckless of me to suggest, but alone in a room with my eyes closed I might consider trying my pen. However taking into account the inconvenience, risk and need to calculate the dosage duration, the results would have to be very significant to justify it - at which point it may be worth investing in the commercial model. Proper laser safety goggles are expensive, and there are many dangerous Chinese knockoffs around.

    The websites I read about the laser helmet for hair loss were overmachogrande.com and worldhairloss.org. They have details of a pulsing device like the top end Vielight, but it's $299 or so.

    Edit: I did find a site with instructions on making a similar device for $30, perhaps in conjunction with the instructions above it might be clear enough: http://electromedicine.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/low-level-laser-therapy/. I don't know how secure it would be and a still a little uneasy about having lasers so near the eyes. Perhaps LEDs or unfocused lasers would be safer; I don't understand either well enough to advise safely.
    Wayne likes this.
  9. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    Thanks for this input Vordhosbn.
    Would you mind giving a link?
  10. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    267
    southeast US
    Just to be clear the Vielight I purchased and am reporting on is NOT a laser. No way would I stick a laser up my nose, but who knows, maybe the LED light will later turn out to be unsafe as well. I have subscribed to Dr. Rowen's newletter, Second Opinion, for ten years and have simply come to trust his research and advice.

    I'm no expert on LED light and everyone should use their own judgement.
  11. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    LED 633 nm trial - Day 4

    I did not sleep very well last night but I am not tired.
    I am happy though that I used the LED in my hand last night instead of my nostril because I distinctly feel the LED (even in the hand but less so) gives some detox around the eyes, especially the left eye, which is a sign of extra sympathetic activity. It was not too bad, just a bit of puffiness which went away with cold water. Also a couple of pimples on the left cheekbone and a rash under the left ear.
    The nodule in the hand is larger and flatter, and the bruised triangle is slightly darker.

    Vision seems a tiny bit less blurry. :)

    Lou : Don't worry on my behalf, I take full responsibility for what might or not happen due to this experiment. Please accept my thanks for introducing the topic. I wish you all the best!:hug:

    Just a reminder : I am now on NO medication or supplementation whatsoever. I do swim everyday in natural water for an hour. I also sunbathe for an hour morning AND afternoon. The afternoon bit is new and I feel I get more red light that way and that it helps.
    I also practice daily a set of exercises to drain the lymph from the base of the skull, along the ideas of the Perrin Technique but I do not need a therapist to do this.

    EDIT: I have turned the computer screens to black and white about three months ago. So bye bye blue light! And I now only watch films in black and white.

    Blessings,
    Asklipia
    Wayne likes this.
  12. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    LED 633 nm trial - Day 5
    Yesterday 6 pm I held the LED in my right hand.
    About 15 minutes after the end of the session three painful rashes appeared, one on the first phalanx of the ring finger, on the back of my right hand (obviously related to the nodule), one big one around the left knee and one on the left eye.
    I felt my blood was "boiling" for about three hours until I fell asleep.
    I slept very well. Maybe the light sleep the previous nights had no relation to the LED, but was due to a fantastic summer full moon? Thanks Wayne for this insight.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/unduly-affected-by-full-moon.24425/

    This morning the rashes have totally disappeared leaving no trace, but the left eye is still swollen. This went away with cold water.
    The nodule is slightly flatter again. The bruise now extends faintly into my pinkie.

    Vision seems slightly less blurry again.

    This LED light seems extremely powerful and the effects continue to appear even a few hours after its use.
    Today I shall skip a day of LED application, to give my body a rest and also to check whether I can still feel it working after 24 hours.
    Be well!
    Asklipia
    Little Bluestem and Wayne like this.
  13. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes:
    2,689
    Couchland, USA
    Thank you Asklipia for these great updates--keep 'em comin' :)
    It is so useful to hear your progress.
    Wayne likes this.
  14. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    267
    southeast US

    Second leela's remarks.

    Asklipia, You seem to be a strong responder and I'm happy you're getting results so quickly. Mine have not been as dramatic, yet I'm certainly encouraged and will be more specific later. Are we using the same light, Vielight?
    leela likes this.
  15. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    leela, Thank you for the encouragements! I was starting to feel that no one was interested, as it seems to be the case with more or less everything I propose, because it does not follow the lines of what other people think. :(

    Lou, Thank you for the encouragements too! Yes I am using the Vielight LED 633 nm.
    I suppose I am noticing the effects more than you do. Whether or not they are more intense really I don't know. This may be because I might be in better shape at the moment than you are. When you are not overwhelmed by symptoms it is easier to detail them. It may be due to the other things I do.
    It is also easier to report because at the moment a part of the general feeling is very much what I experienced with thiamine supplementation (dannybex and merylg), but without the excitatory feeling that made me stop that. Also there is a localized part in the effect, which of course I did not get with thiamine. Both certainly affect stimulate the sympathetic response.

    LED 633 nm trial - Day 6

    Yesterday I did not use the light. In fact I was very lazy all day long, I felt this deep urge to do nothing to allow repairs to go on. In the night I did not sleep well though, it could be because the temperature was very high (32°C in the house) and this may have impacted the nervous system. But I did not feel too hot. It was just swimming around in bed and dreaming without sleeping.

    This morning the nodule is slightly flatter again. I think the effect of the LED application lasts for more than 24 hours. I notice that doctors who use red laser application do not do this everyday, but at the maximum no more than every other day. I thought that this was to avoid stress on the tissues because the laser is so much more powerful, but now I wonder. I have decided to persevere on this rhythm for the moment. Every other day.

    Since I have nothing much to add, here is a link that seems to tilt the balance towards LED against laser :
    http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=20000102232338

    I am sorry but I find it difficult to summarize it! I leave this to you if you feel like it :)
    Be well!
    Asklipia
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  16. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Likes:
    243
    Asklipia :) :)
    Can you describe how you do this?
    I seem to need this kind of intervention far less often than I used to, but I'm very interested in knowing something effective I can learn to do at home.
    Many thanks,
    Anne.

    PS Also very interested in the LED experiment, and appreciate your updates.
    leela likes this.
  17. Asklipia

    Asklipia Senior Member

    Messages:
    578
    Likes:
    417
    anne_likes_red likes this.
  18. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Likes:
    243
    Sweet! I'll PM you an email address!
    :D
  19. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,367
    Likes:
    2,689
    Couchland, USA
    From the article Asklipia linked to:
    Asklipia likes this.
  20. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    267
    southeast US
    Asklipia Thanks for another good article on light therapy. As to our different level of response I'm now not nearly as ill as many here (somehow I just began to get better after about ten years), am in comparison pretty active, and lead a somewhat normal life. Not to say I'm cured by any means and getting Lyme last summer has been my biggest challenge since coming down with me/cfs in mid eighties. I digress, sorry.

    Actually, your article may hold a clue to peoples' varying response rates. It stated the average wavelength of cell tissue in the human body is between 600 and 720 making 660 the mid-point. So, for example, if my cell tissues resonate closer to one of the start or end-point numbers and yours resonates very near or at 660 perhaps better resonance with the 660 LED light makes the difference. Just a thought.
    Asklipia and leela like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page