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LDN+d-phenylalanine. anyone else tried it?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by stevesayshi, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. stevesayshi

    stevesayshi

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    Although I haven't been tested (and am not sure such a test exists) I suspect that low endorphins were a problem before I got sick and are even more of one now.

    I started LDN (1.5 mg to start) 2 weeks ago and added d-phenylalanine at 1.5 - 2 g a day a week ago. This combo hasn't had a profound effect on my health or actual energy levels (yet?) but mentally I feel much more like myself than I have in quite a while. Things seem funny again, I'm enjoying the company of others even though I can't really keep up with conversations like I used to, I don't fantasize about killing myself constantly; you know, the little things.

    I'm wondering if I will counteract the effects of LDN by adding another substance that increases endorphins (well enkephalins via inhibiting their degradation) or is this potentially a way to accelerate healing? I could find very little reference to using them together, just one secondhand recommendation. Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  2. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Thoughts, anyone?
     
  3. vortex

    vortex

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    I tried it a long time ago, I was really excited about the combo at the time but had some issues and abandoned it, but maybe I should try it again, thanks for the inspiration and let us know how it goes.
     
  4. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I think it's a good combo and one I am currently trialing as well.

    As far as I have read, Dr Bihari recommended taking DLPA with LDN. I've always done better with plain DPA (plus that is what I already have!) so I will use that. The d enantiomer is responsible for endorphins anyway.
     
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @stevesayshi
    Some studies have shown that D-phenylalanine is an antidepressant, so this is likely why you experienced a mood boost from it.


    D-phenylalanine as a Possible Enhancer of Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN)

    D-phenylalanine can raise beta endorphin levels due to its ability to inhibit carboxypeptidase A, an enzyme that breaks down beta endorphin.

    So on the assumption that LDN increases your body's production of beta endorphin, D-phenylalanine should further enhance these increased beta endorphin levels, by slowing the breakdown of the beta endorphin.


    However, it is not clear whether LDN might raise or lower beta endorphin. This study on LDN as a treatment for autism found that in some autistic children LDN raised beta endorphin, but in others it lowered beta endorphin. In both cases, symptoms of autism were improved.

    So if this study can be extrapolated to ME/CFS: then in some ME/CFS patients, LDN might raise beta endorphin, and in other patients it might lower beta endorphin.

    But the autism study found that baseline beta endorphin levels were higher in autistic children than in healthy controls. Whereas in ME/CFS patients, beta endorphin levels are lower than normal. So there are differences between autism and ME/CFS when it comes to beta endorphin levels.


    Note that LDN also affects opioid growth factor (aka: met-enkephalin) as well as the opioid growth factor receptor.
     
  6. South

    South Senior Member

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    I don't know if it's just the D Phenylalanine, or if the DL form or the L form of phenylalanine do the same thing, but be aware that people with low bh4 may actually feel worse if they take extra phenylalanine - it uses up two bh4's before it can become dopamine. My husband experienced low serotonin type depression on the days he took L phenylalanine.

    Rich Vank had some comments about phenylalanine using up too much bh4, if I can find the quote, I'll add it to this message.

    Edit: can't find his quote, somehow the search function by name doesn't work for his name.
     
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    This may be the quote:

     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I suppose this combo is a no-go for +/+ MAO-A... Before I found out about my +/+ condition I tried the Phe and couldn't hancle the excess serotonin. I plan to start the LDN in a couple of months though :cautious:
     

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