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Lapp Reports XMRV is Found in CFS Using Genome Detection Technology/Ampligen News

Discussion in 'Media, Interviews, Blogs, Talks, Events about XMRV' started by Cort, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Bob

    Bob

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    Here's some of my thoughts about contamination:

    It seems that most scientists are now accepting that XMRV is a real virus, and that it's not contamination from mouse DNA or mouse MLV's.

    So I think that this should move the contamination debate onwards somewhat, although I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

    It seems that the new line coming from the contamination theorists is that Judy Mikovits is detecting contamination from the cell line.

    All the contamination theories have changed, as all the scientists have come to realise that XMRV is a real virus after all. But Judy's research has not yet been proved to be at fault. So it will be interesting to see where the contamination theorists move their position to next.

    Alter and Lo did test for mouse contamination, with what they considered to be the best methods available to them.

    But it is now being suggested the XMRV is contamination from a cell line.
    I don't know if Alter and Lo have checked for contamination of PMRV's or XMRV from a cell line.
    However no one has yet suggested that PMRV's might be contamination from a cell line.

    So it's all getting very complex, and it seems remarkable that Judy and Lo should be the only ones to detect this real virus, whether from a cell line or not.
     
  2. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    "Contamination" was the idea used against Hilary Johnson, of Osler's Web, in the earlier research which explored a retroviral cause for ME-CFS. That is how they knocked her out of play, and stopped this line of research.
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Finally getting round to adding some comments on some oldish threads...

    I was excited by this report, and it does still seem exciting to me, a reputable lab finding XMRV...once again, it is not just the WPI who are finding XMRV.

    There is something odd about the LTRs. In the CROI presentations on alleged origins of XMRV, studying the diagrams relating to 'PreXMRV1' and 'PreXMRV2', note that the sequence identity mentioned does not seem to include the LTRs, which are very different between XMRV and the relevant mouse sequences. The LTRs are more than junk, as mentioned - they seem to contain sequences which are crucial for binding sites that would activate autoimmune-like processes: there was a published paper recently on the binding sites opened up by proteins in XMRV's LTRs, which may be relevant, since we are now seeing these oddities elsewhere in relation to the LTRs.

    I was even more excited about the lunulas though! No lunulas whatsoever here either (it's always nice to confirm you fit in!), just a couple of tiny ones on both thumbs; I checked with a healthy friend and his lunulas are big and unmistakeable white crescents. My nails are also very pink. From the range of people who have all reported missing lunulas on this thread, it sounds to me like just about the strongest 'straw poll' we've ever had! - this seems to be common across many 'subgroups' and a poll would be very interesting. I would buy the B12 deficiency theory - but the stress theory makes no sense to me. If 'chronic stress' includes not just trauma but also environmental stressors (the position we always seem to back up to whenever anybody mentions 'stress') then what does the word 'stress' really mean? It seems to amount to meaning no more than 'something or other', since it's hard to think of a factor we might be considering as a cause which would not come under the heading of such a definition of 'stress'.

    B12 is much more interesting...one quick note on B12: there was an interesting German paper on Alzheimer's recently (sorry, I would struggle to track it down) which seems to be saying that the B vitamins (6/9/12) have a role in protecting the nervous system from metals: my understanding is that the B vitamins help to remove iron and aluminium from the nervous system, thus they have a kind of neuroprotective role - and in Alzheimer's the tangled amyloid protein buildup may be caused by metals that haven't been detoxed.

    That's my theory re: B12 at the moment, anyway, that the involvement of B12 deficiency linked to various nervous system disorders is because they are neuroprotectors, and if deficient or overstressed for whatever reason, there will be consequences for the nervous system. I think there are various other such factors at play with all the subgroupings - eg APOBEC3 mutations could be one pathway to a certain subgroup of pathology - but that the B vitamin issue runs right the way across a whole load of neurological conditions and is maybe even a kind of prerequisite for neurological conditions (ie people with healthy B12 levels won't suffer these effects) - and I even suspect we can include things like some/all forms of depression in that as well.
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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  5. Parismountain

    Parismountain Senior Member

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    No lunulas here except on thumbs. Maybe I can open a lab that just looks at fingernails, charge ten dollars per finger and refer people who are ill. I think I'm competent enough to do that.
     
  6. jimm

    jimm

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    nail patella syndrome

    nail patella syndrome might be something the nail people should look into
     
  7. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    Dr. Mikovits says that this company (Chronix Biomedical Labs) DID find XMRV's LTR.
     
  8. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Bumping this thread, which has drifted away, for two reasons...

    Firstly the significance of Chronix' XMRV results and the value of documenting those who are finding XMRV other than WPI.

    Secondly, though, the lunulas thing, which seems really very strong to me. Step forward anyone who still has strong lunulas...I think this is crying out for a poll, with a bit of info early on to explain what to look for - there's some good info earlier in this thread.

    Anybody want to volunteer for the simple task of creating that poll?
     
  9. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yup. On my thumbs anyway.

    This thread was from March 22nd... I guess that's not long to be waiting for news. It feels like ages though!
     
  10. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    An age thing?

    I thought the lunula thing was related to age.
    That's what I have read.
     
  11. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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  12. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, all.

    Concerning Chronix and Dr. Howard Urnovitz, I spotted Dr. Urnovitz briefly at the NIH CFS workshop earlier this month, but didn't get a chance to talk to him. I don't think he was there for the entire workshop, but I was interested to see that he came.

    Rich
     
  13. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    No lunulas except small ones on my thumbs. I'll create that poll if I can work out how...
     
  14. Boule de feu

    Boule de feu Senior Member

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    But then, who should I believe?

    This article says the opposite: it is a sign of illness... Very informative.
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-lunula.htm

    My left hand has no lunula except for my two thumbs.
    My right hand has two small ones on the middle finger and the second one.

    They say it is normal to lose the ones on the last two fingers.

    I would like to know more about this.
     
  15. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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