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Lancet Article by Gkikas Magiorkinis:April 2011

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by Gamboa, Mar 30, 2011.

  1. Gamboa

    Gamboa Senior Member

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    XMRV as lab creation that has inadvertently infected humans.

    The first paragraph looks discouraging: keep reading. The last paragraph is VERY interesting.

    MOUSE VIRUSES AND HUMAN DISEASE

    The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Volume 11, Issue 4, Page 264, April 2011

    Recent evidence claims to show that the link between xenotropic murine leukaemia virus-related virus (XMRV) and chronic fatigue syndrome1 and prostate cancer is probably a result of laboratory contamination.

    A part of the research has focused on proving that the molecular approach (PCR) is sensitive but not specific, predisposing it to possible contamination.2, 3 Another part of the research has shown that the virus is common even in human cell-lines and since it can be amplified easily, the possibility of contamination is high.4 Finally, the most interesting piece of evidence is the molecular evolution of the samples isolated from patients, cell-lines, and mice proving that XMRV has not been circulating between human beings.4

    Nevertheless, the paper by Lombardi and colleagues5 that began this debate provided solid evidence based not only on the molecular identification of the virus, but also on immunological responses of the host (virus-specific antibodies), viral expression in patients' peripheral blood mononuclear cells (flow cytometry), and an infection model (infection of cultured human cells from patients' samples). Recently, a model of rhesus macaques enforced the evidence for the infectious potential of XMRV.6 The immunological and infection evidence cannot be explained by nucleic acid contaminations. Thus, the only explanation for the molecular evolution data, from a study by Hue and colleagues,4 is that the patients have been infected by a common source of XMRV and not through human contact.

    Once a virus is endogenised, it is forced to follow the evolutionary rate of the host. Since XMRV is integrated in cell-lines the virus evolution is restricted to the host's pace of evolution, and viral descendants have none or minimum sequence diversity. Thus, if a contaminated product, previously cultured in cell-lines, is administered to people then the infections would provide the evolutionary patterns reported by Hue and colleagues.4 If the immunological data reported by Lombardi and colleagues5 are correct, then we need to trace the common source of XMRV and not through human contact.

    Once a virus is endogenised, it is forced to follow the evolutionary rate of the host. Since XMRV is integrated in cell-lines the virus evolution is restricted to the host's pace of evolution, and viral descendants have none or minimum sequence diversity. Thus, if a contaminated product, previously cultured in cell-lines, is administered to people then the infections would provide the evolutionary patterns reported by Hue and colleagues.4 If the immunological data reported by Lombardi and colleagues5 are correct, then we need to trace the common source for these infections to prevent possible public health concerns. Products from cell-lines should be the first candidates.

    by Gkikas Magiokinis

    The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Volume 11, Issue 4, Page 264, April 2011
     
  2. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    I hate to say it but this has been concerning me for some time now. Is anyone aware of any particular treatments used by the all the clinics the Science cohort were drawn from?
     
  3. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    "XMRV IN A BUN!
    MOUSE PLAGUE ON A STICK!"

    Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibblah, PHd, MD, chief vaccination officer and nutritionalist for Gluxo-Smut-Kroprom ;)

    PS
    for those who don't get the joke...go read Terry Pratchett! :p

    PPS
    For those who don't get the refference, see Andrew Wakefield!
     
  4. FunkOdyssey

    FunkOdyssey Senior Member

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    Yeah, vaccinations.
     
  5. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    Which brings us back to this hypothesis:
    http://www.frontiersin.org/virology/10.3389/fmicb.2010.00147/abstract

    Continuing this hypothesis: maybe XMRV doesn't cause illness in us, but our immune system might hate the hell out of it.
     
  6. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Vaccines Jemal - there's so much queried now about their production - could that be a problem.
     
  7. Bob

    Bob

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    That's an exceptionally well written article, and very helpful.
    I've not seen the name, Gkikas Magiorkinis, before. Does anyone have any idea who they might be? i.e. a researcher?

    It certainly does highlight the issue of vaccines again doesn't it!

    So, if the Lancet acknowledges this article as having scientific credibility, then I wonder why they won't publish Judy Mikovits' unpublished XMRV papers?


    ETA:
    To answer my own question, I think that Gkikas Magiorkinis might be a Molecular epidemiologist at the Department of Hygiene, Epidemiology and Medical Statistics, Medical School, University of Athens.
    http://www.scivee.tv/user/9460

    Actually, that looks like his old position, and it looks like he is currently at Oxford University:
    http://evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk/Evolve/Gkikas_Magiorkinis.html

     
  8. Bob

    Bob

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  9. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    http://saturn.adarc.org/paleo/belshaw.html
     
  10. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Thanks for this, Silver, I needed a good larf through this migraine; not to mention been so brainfoggy/eyepainy I can't eve read Pratchett any more :eek:
    (you know things are bad when you can't read Pratchett)

    Interesting article--should get more press and attention.
     
  11. Bevbh

    Bevbh

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    I was really surprised to see this article in a journal as mainstream as Lancet. I read it as basically agreeing with Dr. Deckoff-Jones that the recombination article doesnt mean the end of XMRV, it opens up a whole new can of worms about what has been going on in labs passing human tissue through mouse cell lines all over the world for years now. And some of those cell lines are used to make vaccines and other biological products. But it could mean the fight will get uglier as the vaccine industry realizes the implications.
     
  12. Bob

    Bob

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    Hi Bev,
    Yes, that's exactly my interpretation, including how the fight might get even uglier now.
     
  13. Bob

    Bob

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    Yes, unfortunately her work with new variants of XMRV and PMRV has not been published, and other researchers can only work from what's already been published.
    But Judy has been saying for ages that she's found PMRV's and new variants of XMRV.
    One blogger even quoted her as saying that she had detected a 'bevy' of different MLV-related viruses. I'm not sure how accurate that report was though, unless they just mean variants of XMRV and PMRV.
     
  14. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I feel the same. The idea that this could somehow have been spread "artificially" is very explosive. I hope it's not true. It would already be bad enough, a big enough story, if it has been spread the normal way. This would really shake the world. I was also surprised to see it in the Lancet.
     
  15. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Interesting thread - thanks to you all for information and thoughts on the matter.
     
  16. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Leela,
    hehe my pleasure ;)
     
  17. Bevbh

    Bevbh

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    The River by Edward Hooper

    Have any of you read The River by Edward Hooper. He spent 7 years investigating the theory that HIV was accidently introduced into people by polio vaccines grown on monkey and chimp kidneys and tested in Africa. Very interesting book even if the theory is incorrect because it easily could have happened. The Vaccine Industry went nuts when it was published and claims to have tested old samples and proven them not contaminated but I'm a little skeptical about self-investigation.

    It is enlightening about the cavileer attitudes they had in those days about human testing. I found out that I was given an experimental vaccine that was later shown to be too virulent because all the kids in the Miami-Dade County school system were used in the experiment.

    It is known that SV40 and other simian viruses got into the human population because of the vaccines used in those days. I dont have the energy or the stomach to follow the autism/vaccine story closely but I do know that the vaccine industry does not encourage legitimate questioning of their practices and the vaccine injury commission does not pay out for legitimate claims without a fight in many cases.
     
  18. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    I have to say I was waiting for an article like this to get published. I think this is exactly what has happened. As soon as the 'proof' about contamination came out i saw that not as disproving XMRV in us, but rather the explaination as to how it got in us.

    As soon as i read that, i had a sinking feeling as i thought, 'vacines' and then tried to remember what i had and when. I realised that about a year before i got ill ( i may have had mild symptoms before that its so hard to remember exactly when i got ill) i went to India, and i had a bunch of vacs a few days before i left.
    It was a sudden trip with work and i remember i had to get a travel centre to do it cause my docs didnt have what i needed so quick.
    The travel place gave me a little record book, i had:
    - Polio (Revaxis)
    - Tetanus / Diptheria (Revaxis)
    - Typoid (Viatim)
    - Hepatitis A (Viatim)
    The other thing i had of course were anti-malaria tablets.

    Now, I went on that trip and got very ill. I thought i had jet lag and i got sleeping tablets while there, but was well ill. Got home a week later, spent the weekend asleep and got better.

    Now, did i get XMRV pumped into me at that point?

    I've read on the forums about some ME/CFS files that the Govt. isnt releasing as per the normal intervals under freedom of info, but they want to keep it under wraps. Whats that about?

    Also i read about Polio in the 50/60s and how there were outbreaks of ME/CFS at the same places. Did they test a vacine on some people?

    It all stinks to me. If you are a big pharma co. or the govt. you have an interest in not letting anyone find out. Now conspiracy theorists would say they would try to cover it up. But im not 100% sure i agree with that. Maybe not. But, would they not tell us themselves, and leave it for someone else to 'maybe' find oneday? Sure.

    That would explain also why ME/CFS has always had such low govt. funding.

    If this does turn out to be it, then this will make MASSIVE news world over. Like i dont think we can even contemplate how big a splash this would make.
     
  19. Bevbh

    Bevbh

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    Yeah, I think there may be some stuff in The River about the Punta Gorda outbreak or was that Osler's Web I'm confused with? He did a lot of investigating weird outbreaks of the 50's, 60's and 70's in trying to track down the first cases of AIDS. That was my first introduction to a lot of things the govt esp the military did to civilians and the enlisted people.
     
  20. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Interesting politics on this in Oxford. Gkikis M. (the author) is a Postdoc working with Robert Belshaw (thanks for the link Natasa).

    Also at Oxford is Aris Katzourakis (who co-authored) the contamination piece Gkikis was replying to. Aris is a Fellow and has published with people like Towers (2009), Switzer (2009) and Bishop (2008).

    http://saturn.adarc.org/paleo/katzourakis.html

    I hope that this has not been a career limiting move by Gkikis.
     

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