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Lactobacillus plantarum.. Is it d lactate free?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by aquariusgirl, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    sianrecovery likes this.
  2. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    According to Custom Probiotics the salivarius and rhamnosus are d lactate free. I don't know about the plantarum but you could email them to find out.

    Oh, just saw this on wiki...if it's right that is: "In many of the species it is found in, the enzyme acts on the substrate D-lactate and produces L-lactate. There are a few exceptions, such as Lactobacillus plantarum, in which L-lactate is the substrate and D-lactate is produced.[3]"

    I hope someone who knows this stuff chimes in...
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I've been trying to understand how bacteria work too .. can you tell me why we want it to be d Lactate free ? I'm allergic to casein so I look for Casein free probiotics .. is this the same thing ? Actually, I was wondering, since the bacteria that grow in dairy is there to break down dairy, will eating bacteria help us eliminate a dairy allergy ? I'm assuming the bacteria that are growing are there to breakdown the casein as well as the lactose, right ?

    thanks ... x
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  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    spoke to the chemist at custom probiotics. L Plantarum produces D Lactate, he says.


    x-chocaholic... check out the studies here from DR Maes. I believe he is the one saying D Lactate is a no-no.
  5. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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  6. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    read some of that stuff last nite

    Logan said ..if I recall correctly....L Plantarum is Ok. So now don't know what to think.

    Anyway, I canceled the probiotic with L Plantarum in it and ordered some D Lactate free stuff from Custom Probiotics.

    This stuff is complicated ..and judging by my brain, I would say H2S might be a problem.
  7. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Here's the quote from Logan I was thinking of:



    Yes, the benefits appear to be strain-specific. If it is for symptoms that resemble that of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) then I would suggest 2 strains of bacteria that have been shown to be helpful for gut-related symptoms – Align (Bifidobacteria infantis 35624) and LactoFlamX (Lactobacillus plantarum 299V). In our University of Toronto study, we used a probiotic made by the Japanese company Yakult. The strain, Lactobacillus casei Shirota had been found previously to improve mental outlook in healthy volunteers who had the lowest baseline mood scores. It also lowers propionate production in the gut.
  8. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Maybe Dr Logan could have been thinking more generally about gut problems there as it does seem that plantarum does produce d lactate.

    Yeah, this stuff is complex... FWIW I used to take a good brand of bifidus which I found helpful. Then they took it off the market. So now I take Biocueticals SB Floractiv (S. boulardii) which I've also found helpful. Some people wont like it though as it contains lactose.
  9. lono

    lono

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  10. powertool4

    powertool4

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    Plantarum may or may not be d-lactate free. it depends on the strain. custom probiotics says that it is and Harry b. said he would send me an article which he never did. I know the article he's talking about and it has no conclusion that plantarum is d-lactate free.

    the strain lacto. plantarum 299v is however, and that is the one in one of the metagenics and in Good belly and a few other products.
    L. casei shirota found in yakult (though really high in sugar), lactobacillus acidophilus spp rhamnosus LGG (culturelle) is also d-lactate free, as are most bifidobacteria probiotics.

    +1 on culturelle. VERY good
  11. corganic

    corganic

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    GUTPro Custom Probiotic

    After spending years of researching this topic, I developed a custom probiotic called GUTPro. (simply because I could not find one on the market that was suitable)

    I originally wanted to create a d-lactate free probiotic, but the truth is, there are only a couple of strains that contribute to d-lactic acidosis. So, in essence, seeking a probiotic that is "d-lactate free" is a very simplistic view of choosing a probiotic. The reason that this topic is so confusing is that, like any other health issue, there are a myriad of factors. Also, compounding the problem is that some probiotics will produce l-lactic acid, and then switch over to producing d-lactic acid! The biggest factor with d-lactic acidosis, in my opinion, is diet. Carbohydrates are a huge problem, and diets like the GAPS Diet and the SCD diet address this.

    Back to GUTPro....

    GUTPro custom probiotic was based on years of feedback from people dealing with gut issues and who were concerned about d-lactic acidosis. It contains 7 d-lactate free strains, plus l. Plantarum. There have been no studies that implicate Plantarum in d-lactic acidosis (the strain produces both d- and l-lacitic acid). In fact, there was study that showed that Plantarum is beneficial in treating d-lactic acidosis.

    GUTPro also eliminates other strains that cause negative reactions in people (apart from d-lactic acidosis). It is produced with no common allergens (soy, dairy, gluten, corn), and does not contain any prebiotic (FOS, maltodextrin, inulin). It doesn't have any other unnecessary ingredients (magnesium stearate, silica, flavors, colors, etc).

    GUTPro at Organic3.com

    Let me know if you have any questions!

    Dan
  12. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Hi Dan,

    Your GUT Pro looks good to me. I'd like to try it. Do you use the 299v species of L. plantarum? (I'm guessing this is a common one used of the plantarum "family" as it seems to be the most studied.)
    What do you guys charge to send a bottle to Australia?

    Cheers
    Tony...:)
  13. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    I think that product looks good too. Natasha Campbell McBride (GAPS doctor, specialising in Autism and diet) mentioned that the Bio-Kult she originally designed may not be suitable for long term or severe ME sufferers. I wonder if it's d lactic acidosis that makes the difference?

    Tony, I noticed that Ethical Nutrients IBS Support is L. plantarum 299v if you're after that one in particular.
    ETA And Ethical Nutrients Excema Shield is Lactobacillus rhamnosus (GG), another good strain.
  14. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

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    strain 299v is available in stores in the product known as 'good belly'.
  15. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Thanks Anne, I'm really after a bifidus product which is why I like this Gut Pro....unfortunately they don't ship it to Aus...
  16. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Tony.

    I am also interested in getting hold of a suitable probiotic, with the intention of growing it on. Have you had any success in finding anything. Oh, I live in Brisbane. Ideally, I want to go down to my health food store and pull one out of the fridge, but know next to nothing about which brands are best. Maybe Inner Health? I really want to avoid the D lactic acidosis issues.

    Edit: I think I will give Udo's Choice Super 8 a go, if I can get hold of it. The logic of going with a single strain escapes me. A lot of faecal tests are showing total wipe out of multiple strains. Udo's at least has multiple strains.
  17. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Hi Rusty,

    I see Udo's also have a mainly Bifidus probiotic too. The problem we have is getting it shipped if it requires refrigeration to keep. Iherb won't ship some because of this. But they do have Source Naturals brand 'Bifidyn' which is 2 strains of bifidus and is the one I'm taking along with SB Floractiv from Bioceuticals.

    I agree, depends on what we each need as to what to take.
  18. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Hi Tony. I ended up with Polybac 8, from Nutrition Care (8 strains of bifidos and lactos). Don't know anything about it. Bit of a worry with some of the health store's expiry dates on some brands.

    Am trying to culture it right now. After 6 hours liquid has thickened, but still very watery. Tastes very yoghurty - actually pretty good (I added sugar) - so definitely working. If this is a goer, I should save hundreds... may now be able to afford bread that is sliced.:D

    Does anyone know how much of the yoghurt I can take a day? As much as I can?
  19. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Tony, after reading more threads in this subforum, I am now totally confused and seriously doubting the wisdom of my earlier decision to culture Polybac on several fronts. There is a lot of conflicting info. Don't even know if I can culture from a probiotic and still have the strains run pure.

    Why are you only after bifidos now?
  20. Tony

    Tony Still working on it all..

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    Hi Rusty, I've recently taken VSL#3 after a round of a/b's but in this latest series of ab's and probiotics the doc has decided it's bifidus for me. Makes sense as my last stool testing showed an overgrowth of lacto after several months of VSL. The lacto had previously been low. So it seems for me that the lacto can stick but the bifido is more difficult to get to stay in its new home....:)

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