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L-Carnitine Fumarate

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
Hello @aturtles , thanks so much for the response.

I really believe I am having some kind of insulin response to the LCF. I am having to take super small doses, with food. I believe my dose would be about 100 mg. 2x day.

My potassium has been good. Does potassium have to do with LCF also?

Out of the blue yesterday, I had a Potassium crash and had to take quite a bit to get my levels back up. It was an eye opener. I believe some cleansing I am doing (enemas, etc.) also depletes Potassium so I am having to adjust for that. I feel much better today, levels feel normal again.

I will look into the TMG, I don't really feel wound up from the LCF, it's like a weak, jittery, sugar crashy feeling. Please let me know if you have anymore thoughts, I really appreciate it.:)

TropicalKid

I started way too high, 500mg. I had to go down to 64 mg a day and titrate my way up to control the generation of ATP. It also causes muscle cells to start forming and generates a need for much potassium for many. TMG took the edge off.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Hi @Freddd nice to see you here.
waving-1048.gif
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@adreno and/or @caledonia -- any truth to the notion that l-carnitine lowers choline levels?

I used to take l-carnitine all the time, but read a few years ago (can't remember the site) that it can drastically lower choline levels and thus cause liver problems.

???

Also, my fat intake isn't very high (always tend to get RLS -- very frustrating), but wouldn't be surprised if I have some fatty liver issues (due to not getting enough fats in my diet and thus too many carbs). But another 'expert' a few years ago told me that carnitine would cause weight loss, so she told me to avoid it. I've gone downhill big time during these past four years -- have lost so much muscle I need to use a wheelchair outside of my apartment.

I'm obviously confused, so would appreciate your input(s). :)

I thought this was a pretty good website -
http://nootriment.com/acetyl-l-carnitine-vs-l-carnitine/

There are two forms of carnitine, acetyl L carnitine (ALCAR) and L carnitine fumarate. The first one crosses the blood brain barrier and requires choline for conversion. This is taken for brain health. The second one is for the mitos (energy). Choline doesn't seem to be linked to that one.

Here's the same site with a page on ALCAR where it talks about using choline -
http://nootriment.com/acetyl-l-carnitine/

This page says ALCAR is used for weight loss without losing muscle -
http://nootriment.com/acetyl-l-carnitine-for-weight-loss/

Here is another link for bodybuilders with something called a CCC stack - l-carnitine, choline and caffeine are used to help lose fat, but it's not a fat burner per se. So if you take it, it won't cause you to lose fat unless you're also exercising.
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/02/forgotten-dieting-aids-choline.html
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/02/forgotten-dieting-aids-choline.html
I found another site that says choline used with regular l-carnitine to help preserve the levels of carnitine in the muscles. Section 14.2
http://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/#summary14-1

I saw another page (sorry didn't copy that one) that says the fumarate form of carnitine basically does the same (preserve levels in the muscles).

If you google "l-carnitine liver problems" there are many sites that say it helps fatty liver.

This page says that choline also helps liver health and fatty liver
http://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/#summary14-1
http://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/#summary14-1
=-=-=-

So in summary, I would say that yes ALCAR might cause choline depletion which could have a bad effect on the liver, but that L carnitine is ok. And that supplementation can help the mitos, but doubtful a PWME would be able to get fat loss from it because they can't exercise.
http://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/#summary14-1
-=-=-=-
http://nootriment.com/acetyl-l-carnitine/
Stuff I have been reading lately suggests that creatine should be helpful for energy and muscles as well as methylation, because a large portion of SAMe goes to making creatine. So if you support with creatine, then SAMe is freed up for methylation and other tasks.

So in other words, if your methylation is not that great, then there can be muscle and energy loss because you're not making that much creatine.

-=-=-=-

Have you tried magnesium for RLS? Works great for me.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
Thank you @Freddd and @caledonia. Much appreciated -- nice to have some clarification -- I should've asked 3 years ago! :)

My RLS tends to be 'fat' related, or I should say circulation-related. It gets much worse if I eat saturated fats, and sometimes even EFAs. I know that I need the saturated fats -- and would KILL for some bacon or butter! -- but I think it's because I developed venous insufficiency (as a result of years of salicylate intolerance (thus not getting enough bioflavonoids) and eating most of my food cooked (thus not getting enough fresh vegetables/fruits/vitamin C!).

So I'm trying to turn that around, but it's difficult. Once one develops various food intolerances they can become more and more intolerant of other foods, so it's kind of a vicious cycle and kind of hard to distinguish what's causing what. But some definite patterns have emerged, so am trying to tackle them before I wither away to nothing.

And magnesium -- glad to hear it's helping you Caledonia -- it just makes my twitching worse. Calcium is the only thing that helps, but doesn't do much for the RLS. I'm probably iron deficient or could be good ol' folate as both are connected to RLS.

So complicated, isn't it?
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
I had very bad reactions to LCF, so Fred suggested I switch to liquid carnitine, & titrate up slowly.

In the low doses I'm on so far, it hasn't caused any problems.