1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Brain Cells Making us Sick? The microglia connection in ME/CFS & Fibromyalgia
Simon McGrath looks at theories that microglia, the brain's immune cells, could trigger and perpetuate the symptoms of ME/CFS and fibromyalgia.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

KPU & Mercury and other Heavy Metal Chelation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Sushi, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Hi Everyone,

    I know KPU has been discussed on another thread (m0joey for one has posted) but the search engine won't find something with 3 letters, so sorry to be repeating.

    I am seeing a doctor who is treating me through laser energetic detox, photon therapy, and supplements. After the first round of herbal treatment for XMRV, I started to release mercury. I had an LED for mercury and followed with microsilica. At today's appointment the microsilica detox route tested as no longer working (my doc finds that he often needs to rotate chelators) but I did test well for a combo of oral DMSA and chlorella twice a week. I am definitely having symptoms of releasing mercury and it isn't fun. He will do another LED for mercury tomorrow.

    But he also highlighted the inter-relationship often found between mold exposure, chronic Lyme (I have it), KPU, and heavy metal toxicity. He gave me a very interesting article on this which I am attaching (oops, I am not attaching--it is too big so I'll give a link):

    http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joom...ease-explore&catid=37:publications&Itemid=131

    There is also an interesting tie in with methylation (I am following Rich's Simplified Protocol to restore methylation). My doc is giving me supplemental minerals to deal with KPU (Core from BioPure).

    I'd be interested in others thoughts and experience with this.

    P.S. Kim, is it possible to attach PDF files of about 350 KB's?

    Sushi
  2. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Likes:
    250
    Thanks for that pdf link Sushi. I'd been wondering what KPU is.


    [​IMG]

    Have printed it off for easier reading. Thanks again (and to Rich).
  3. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes:
    3,057
    N. California
    I am feeling very stupid... but what is KPU? :ashamed:
  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes:
    741
    KPU stand for kryptopyrroluria. A more proper name for it is HPU or Hemopyrrollactamuria. If you read Scott Forsgren's paper, which Sushi cited, you can get the whole story.

    The main things are that it involves an abnormality in the metabolism of heme, and it causes depletion of some important nutrients, including zinc and vitamin B6. The tie-in with methylation is that these are cofactors for enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways, so that if they become depleted, even though a person treats with B12 and folate to lift the methylation cycle block, the methylation cycle can still remain blocked. I think that HPU might account for some of the treatment failures of the methylation treatment.

    Dr. Klinghardt is finding HPU in a lot of his patients, and I think he reported at the last Lyme Induced Autism conference that it can be a major barrier to restoring the methylation.

    There's a test for it offered by Vitamin Diagnostics, and described in Scott's paper.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Dreambirdie,

    I think most of us feel pretty stupid most of the time--at least heavy metal poisoning is a good reason/excuse(?).

    KPU is short for Kryptopyrroluria, which I'm sure clarifies it a lot! As I understand it, this is a condition where you pee out essential minerals and vitamins--particularly zinc, manganese, phosphorus, biotin, B 6 & arachidonic acid--stuff we need and, some of which, are also some essentials for methylation. There are various causes for this--some genetic, others trauma and chronic infection--but for us-kind, Klinghardt finds 80% association with Lyme disease, 75% for heavy metal toxicity. Many of our symptoms dove-tail with of deficiencies of these nutrients. My lab tests fit with this. So Klinghardt has a detailed protocol for testing (Vitamin Diagnositics) and treatment through replacing these nutrients under close supervision. He finds this to be one of the missing pieces in treating chronic disease.

    One of the catch 22's is that as you increase zinc (which you need to do), you will release more mercury and feel worse. Hence my doc will give me a dose of DMSA plus a hefty dose of chlorella (these are the chelators/binders that I tested well for today) and then immediately give me an LED for mercury to get a big glob of it out in 24 hours.

    I have to be away from electromagnetics for 25 hours after the LED (which is tomorrow evening) so I won't be able to report in till after Friday 9pm--so realistically, maybe Saturday. I did feel a lot better after my first LED for mercury. The LED's just speed up a long uncomfortable process. Then I will follow with the nutrient replacement that I mentioned before--Core by Bio-Pure.

    I'll let you know...(oops, I see I cross posted with Rich--if there are discrepancies, believe him, not me!)

    Sushi
  6. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes:
    3,057
    N. California
    Hi Sushi--

    I have never heard of KPU before, but it makes sense in the bigger picture. I'm going to check out some of those tests at Vitamin Diagnostics at the end of January--after they move thier lab (as Rich keeps reminding us).

    I am surprised you're going to take the DMSA. I'm freaked out by strong chelators :eek::eek::eek: and can barely handle "mild" ones. But I'm sure your doc knows what he's doing. You've had good results w him so far. So good luck with this! And let us know how it goes for you.
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Dreambirdie,

    I've had bad times with chelators too, but this doc tests you for about 7 different ones to see which one your body will use well "at the moment." I lost count, but it seemed like he was testing me for every chelator known to man, and he also tested them in combination. I think the troubles I've had in the past (and perhaps others) is taking the wrong chelator for the moment--not necessarily the strength of the chelator.

    So far, I haven't had a bad reaction to any chelator this doc has given me (including an earlier dose of DMSA).

    You might want to read the article I linked--it isn't tough going, it's written by a very well educated patient who has experience with this. I believe it is also accurate.

    Letcha know.

    Sushi
  8. susan

    susan Senior Member

    Messages:
    269
    Likes:
    14
    Gold Coast Australia
    I am fascinated about this Kryptopyloria...My new Doc who has left medicine to treat CFS, Autism, ADD told me about it when I said I had drug addiction/alcoholism in my family. He told me to read up on it.....it could be the cause. It is apparently the cause of a large percentage of people with schizophrenia and bi-polar.....not able to metabolize zinc and B6 he said... a gentic problem.....like CFS he claims.
  9. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Susan,

    Yup, that is what this article says too. Wish I could attach it to make it more visible. I also have alcoholism in my family. I was also really puzzled that tests showed that I had no measurable arachidonic acid, even though I was supplementing the right kind of oils to supply it. Most people have too much arachidonic acid and are trying to reduce it! I also had low B6 while supplementing it adequately.

    Would your doc support you in investigating/treating this? Klinghardt feels strongly that this is important for most people with Lyme, heavy metal poisoning, autism, etc. My doc feels that this is very important for me, but also that it is a hard place to get through as treating it increases the excretion of heavy metals--for me mercury. Hence the LED for mercury tonight.

    Sushi
  10. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Likes:
    250
    Fascinated here too. I don't have a family history of the disorders mentioned, and Kilinghardt doesn't specifically mention CFS. ...But surely by virtue of having impaired methylation and me/cfs we have heavy metal toxicity, and therefore have the possibility of that type of induced KPU?
    I do have a few of the symptoms mentioned, also tested low for molybdenum, b6 and manganese plus high in some heavy metals and I'd be interested to get tested. Can I do that kind of testing from Vit. diagnostics from NZ I wonder? Boy are they going to be busy dealing with enquiries when they get back in business!

    Susan, the article references Blake Graham in Perth and through his website theres a link to a lab on the Gold Coast that does a test. Most likely the kind of test that Klinghardt doesn't consider accurate enough though.

    There's a youtube video of Dr.K discussing KPU or HPU at the LIA Rich mentioned.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-yW9eNku0 - and that user has a link to otherl LIA videos.

    Good luck with your LED Sushi!:Retro smile:
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Hi Anne,

    That is a great video (I needed earphones though to hear it). It is obviously just the first part of his lecture and I couldn't find the rest of it--did you?

    Rich might know more about using Vitamin Diagnostics from NZ. I know the Europeans use their lab in the Netherlands, but they seem to be pretty disorganized. I'm hoping that when Vit Diag reopens they will be more organized, as communications with them were not always easy in the past.

    Good luck and I'll report on the LED on (USA) Saturday.

    Sushi
  12. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Thanks for this post sushi. this fits me almost to a tee. This is really great information,

    Can I ask somebody what the symptoms of "dumping metals" is that people talk about? Some days I feel bad and think it is a healing thing going on. How do I know if it is the metals coming out of me?

    time to take some fiber and think about how to get my sauna treatment going again!
  13. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Mark,

    I asked my doc yesterday what the typical symptoms were for "dumping metals." He said that they really ran the gamut of both physical and psychological symptoms.

    For myself, I think I can differentiate only in that when I tested positive for dumping mercury I was noticing a new pattern of symptoms. They are all within the usual range of CFS symptoms, but I hadn't had that pattern before. They seem to correlate, i.e. I get that symptom set, do a lot of stuff to bind things and move stuff out, symptoms disappear, then I take another dose of a heavy metal chelator and the symptoms return the next day.

    Not very helpful as to "what those symptoms are," but maybe you could try to correlate patterns of symptoms if you have a way of monitoring whether or not you are dumping metals.

    Sushi
  14. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes:
    3,057
    N. California
    Hi Mark--

    According to my TCM guy, who is an expert on heavy metals, symptoms of heavy metal mobilization and detoxification VARY
    GREATLY from one person to the next. It's like Sushi said, they run the gamut from overt physical to psychological, mild to severe.

    In my case when I detox metals, my nervous system goes into full bore overdrive. I feel hyper and shaky. I get palpitations, insomnia, frontal headaches and an overall wired/tired feeling. I wanted to confirm that this was IN FACT heavy metals being mobilized, so on a couple occasions during my worst metal detox episodes, I did a fecal metals test. Which very much confirmed what I already suspected! I had LOTS of metals show up on both tests.

    You can get these tests for $150 directly from the company. They send it do Doctor's Data to be analyzed. And yout don't need a doctor's prescription to do it.

    http://www.detoxamin.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=75
  15. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    Some days lately I have more cognitive dysfunction and think it may be related to "dumping metals" or some kind of healing. Just a hunch, but when I add some vitamin and get those symptoms then later eat, or take fiber, or do something else the symptoms subside. So maybe that is it for me. I have a lot of cognitive dysfunction where I can hardly speak some days. And lately it has been bad. I think I had doubled my methylfolate or something and I have been a zombie lately. Maybe I need to try that again. I am just switching around so much, and trying to so much lately, I am a little lost in general. it is hard to say. BUt I bought a bunch of methyfolate and want to try and up my dose to 4800 a day and see what happens. I currently take 2400 a day.
  16. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

    Messages:
    4,998
    Likes:
    3,057
    N. California
    Mark--

    One of the MOST INTENSE dumps of heavy metals I EVER HAD happened after two weeks of taking just ONE TAB of the adB12
    and ONE B Right per day.

    I verified this with one of those metals tests I mention above.

    IMHO I would go easy on those doses, if you are feeling whacked out from them.
  17. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

    Messages:
    835
    Likes:
    250
    Sushi,

    Aaaah yes I did..eventually...but you have to buy the whole talk (I guess it's done as a fundraiser for the organisation.)
    www.zenworksproductions.com Sorry for the teaser!

    Here are the slides from the presentation as far as I can tell. http://www.klinghardtneurobiology.com/KPU09PX.pdf

    I'm also following the gut & methylation discussion on the B12 thread. It feels to me like lots of pieces are coming together all in a rush!

    For many of us who are stuck, working out which issue to treat first, in individual cases, seems to be crucial. I'm only just coming to grips with a lot of this I but think that's the basis of applying the protocols in the New Day group. I've had quite stunning results with "alternative" treatment, working on layers, in the past. And it was this experience that lead me directly to looking at methylation....in a "convinced this is important" kind of way.

    I'll ask Rich about testing. I guess if I can't test I'll have to go at it blind! (Gently though.) But I don't think that's ideal.
    I'm hoping to be in the USA later in the year, as a visitor..but you can't just pop in and see a doctor for tests like that can you! :D

    Your doctor sounds very interesting and clever Sushi, and I'm so happy it seems to be working out for you!! (It's a long road back isn't it....I'm so grateful to those of you sharing your experiences.
    Anne.
  18. susan

    susan Senior Member

    Messages:
    269
    Likes:
    14
    Gold Coast Australia
    Anne,
    I think I might ask my Doc to test me overseas as I dont trust OZ tests much anymore after getting my Metametrex test back from o'eseas and finding so much wrong when I had one identical test here. Yes I can get the test done here on the Gold Coast but dont trust it.
  19. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    6,584
    Likes:
    5,372
    Albuquerque
    Well, I am back from walking on the wild side with a laser/photon detox for mercury! Within hours of the treatment I started having energy and feeling better and by this morning I felt like a new person!:D

    I'm seeing that mercury must be responsible for a bunch of my worst symptoms. The doc gave me a low dose of DMSA and a high dose of chlorella before the laser treatment. I know there is a whole lot more to come, but this stuff is working!

    Sushi
  20. JanisB

    JanisB Senior Member

    Messages:
    223
    Likes:
    12
    Central Ohio
    Really glad to hear you feel great after releasing mercury! I have been dumping a lot of metals (just got the results back of a urine toxic metals and had bars in 9 or more of them) but I never feel great and energetic -- at least not YET.

    But this whole thread reminds me, now that I'm having a sleepless night the day after an i.v. chelation, that my jitters and inability to lie still in bed could be due to the movement of metals. Even though the tests usually are done with 6 hours for DMPS and 9-12 hours for EDTA, could I still be moving lots of metals 36 hours later? This is a more positive way of thinking about oxidative damage or depleted nutritional minerals, which I unfortunately start doing in the middle of the night.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page