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King's College: Understanding Attention difficulties in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ ME

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Firestormm, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    I wonder if this constitutes a personal attack as I completed the survey as I said above :) Am I desperate, naive, or maybe I was 'hoodwinked'.. hmm... I shall go consult my Ouija board about the possible motives behind this survey as well as ponder for hours why indeed I did chose to complete it: NOT! Jees.

    I am out of here.
  2. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

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    I think there is an issue in the way the structure the scales. Generally, symmetric scales (with odd numbers of responses with the same number above and below a neutral value) are believe to be best. Likert items generally take this form. Sometimes with Likert items a forced scale is used in that it doesn't allow a neutral answer so as to force the person answering a question to give an opinion.

    Here though there is one answer below and multiple above a neutral value which amongst other things means that distance between different answers will be different and answers cannot be used with a lot of stats techniques. Assigning numbers and quoting the mean value becomes wrong the mode (most common) is ok though.
  3. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/emotionalsideeffects/attitudes-and-cancer

    King's College got caught with their pants down.
    MeSci, Wildcat, ahmo and 2 others like this.
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I did answer the survey - because they are going to get responses from their own non-ME "fatigue" patients, who they encourage to see their problems as being emotional and stress-related. So it's nice to make it a little harder for them to equate the responses of their cherry-picked fatigue patients with those from real ME patients.

    I didn't try to make myself "feel" anything in response to the words. If I had, it would have been what I thought I would be expected to feel. But in reality, I didn't feel any emotional response to any those terms in the context of ME. Why should I? They're just symptoms.

    If looking for an emotional reaction, maybe they should have tried "sectioning", "psychobabble", "secondary illness gains", "irrational psychosomatic theories", and "Sir Wessely" :rolleyes:

    The disease doesn't upset me. The idiotic politics around it do.
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    So far most of the old stress/disease or positive-psych/disease research has been debunked. Its still possible, because we know that stress hormones can damage the body, but the sweeping hyperbolic claims made by some are looking very unlikely. There is also empirical evidence that stress is often not good. However stress can have positive effects too - its more about complicated biology that is not my area of expertise, than it is about psychology.
    merylg, MeSci, SOC and 1 other person like this.
  6. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    i am not sure if not doing the survey would help. Possibly we would soon see the next headline: Sufferer's lack of interest in ME research shows secondary illness gain greater than expected..
  7. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    The way they present this information is called "weasel words".

    Wikipedia explains this better than I can:

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
    xchocoholic, merylg, Wildcat and 4 others like this.
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    ;)
    Min, Wildcat and Valentijn like this.
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Funny, I find this all over the psychobabble literature.
    Wildcat likes this.
  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I suspect it doesn't matter how this is surveyed, or the outcome, I suspect they might either drop it or spin it. If you answer truthfully, and we all do the survey, they could say "subgroups". If we refuse to respond, then @A.B. is right, they will say we have no interest, or are afraid of psych. If anyone starts putting in stacked answers, like "not concerned" (which is usually the case for me for the sample questions on this thread, with very rare exceptions only on a really bad day), then they might use this as an excuse to delete answers from the sample. Its no-win. If they were really concerned they would organize a properly defined cohort, but if they did that they would have to admit they used Oxford criteria.
    Min, Wildcat, SOC and 2 others like this.
  11. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    Which of the following acronyms produce an emotional response in you:

    BS
    CBT
    BPS
    SW
    GET
    BSBSBS
    ukxmrv, Scarecrow, alex3619 and 3 others like this.
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    ;) The first five? The last one I have to think about, and thinking switches off emotions. But it doesn't affect my energy. As far as emotions go its more about derision, scorn, contempt - generally the dark side of mirth.

    But saying BS three times makes it true, doesn't it? I mean if you believe in magical babble, how the mind can perform miracles, why not Elves and the Law of Threes?
    MeSci, Little Bluestem and Valentijn like this.
  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    This looks like the most hilarious BPS study yet. Desperate to see the final paper.
    Min, MeSci and Cheshire like this.
  14. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

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    I'm constantly amazed at all the fraud, corruption, and outright lies that spew forth from scientific researchers today. Sure is getting hard to see the signal through the noise...
    Min and MeSci like this.
  15. shahida

    shahida

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    If patients can participate why not mess it up by saying 'neutral' to everything? Although as everyone's saying it probably wont matter much- they'd just go on to the next thing. And so the merry go round goes on.......
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
    Min likes this.
  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    @maxwhd linked to this:

    http://www.kcl.ac.uk/iop/news/recor...ify-how-online-rumours-affect-our-health.aspx

    I wonder how they'd class PACE's claims on recovery?
    MeSci, Wildcat, biophile and 2 others like this.
  17. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    I smell an(other) arse-covering propaganda blitz coming on.

    The 'dangers' of the internet to psychological health is one of Wessely's favourite hobby horses, despite his oft predicted great online psycho-pandemic having yet to arise. He thinks we should all just trust the doctors and not worry our pretty little heads.

    Bollocks to that.
    Min, MeSci, ukxmrv and 6 others like this.
  18. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    strange world they are living in. SW thinks the internet is dangerous but didn't he write that Chernobyl radiation wasn't so dangerous as most of the negative health effects were caused by negative thinking and that the aluminum poisoned water in Camelford had only negative effects if you believed it.

    Therefore i conclude the Internet is only dangerous if you believe it. (and i don't)

    His danger scale must be something like:

    information > aluminum > radiation > infection

    Also when it comes to misinformation then the KCL should start with their own website first before moving on to the entire internet. They still have that cancer personality nonsense on their website.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
    Min, alex3619, Sean and 2 others like this.
  19. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

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    This "study" is pure garbage.

    Sick and tired of papers endorsing the "Peter Pan principle" to this disease:
    'If you only truly believe it, you will get cured on your own. Clap if you believe! Clap harder!'

    Waste of time, effort, and money.
    Min and chipmunk1 like this.
  20. cmt12

    cmt12

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    I just want to say I do not believe negative thoughts or thoughts of any kind are the cause. I am not a follower of Freud or his theories. It is a continuous stress SIGNAL that I believe is at the root of the problem. Okay, I'll leave it alone now.

    So, why do some people experience relief and even claim to be cured by CBT, or the Lightening Process, or Gupta? If you read what I wrote about repression, the repression point, and energy allocation then you will understand. If you are just across the repression point and barely symptomatic, these techniques will allow the symptoms to be shoved below by de-stressing. Stress requires energy so preventing stress frees up energy that can be used to repress symptoms. This is why so many people who experience relief using these techniques will almost always have their symptoms come back later. For those of us that are worse, our symptoms can not be repressed no matter how much de-stressing or positive thinking we do.

    Now, I'm curious how any other theory can explain how people can get substantial symptom relief to the point where they feel cured using these techniques? Unless you rationalize it by saying they never had CFS/ME to begin with.
    Min likes this.

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