Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
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KDM - success of fixing the gut

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Banana94, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    To KDM patients:

    Whats your experience with KDM's treatment (mainly ABX) of fixing the gut and Dysbiosis?

    My main problem is Bacteroides overgrowth diagnosed by stool analysis R.E.D labs.
    They are 45% instead of lower <10% after 2 months of Azithromycin. Than he prescribed me Rifaximin for 3 month. My digestion is only a bit better with low carb.

    KDM says it takes a year to restore the gut.
    Whats you experience do you get rid of your dysbiosis by his treatment?
    I think the gut is the central of my problem. If I eat nothing i feel great.

    thank you
     
  2. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    It seems like all KDM patient could fix their gut or it did nothing so they stayed away from this thread.
    Folks please share your experience or link it if you have already done it.

    Thanks :)
     
  3. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    Did you take the rifaximin?..He prescribed it to me also for 3 months...But i don't tolerate probiotics and don't know if i can start with rifaximin without taking probiotics
     
  4. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    yes I took rifaximin for 3 months. But I think it did nothing to me, its to weak maybe.
    you don't tolerate any probiotics? for what kind of overgrowth/infection did he prescribed it to you?
     
  5. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    High clostridum IV and XI Low paraprevotella and bifidobacterium
    High ammonia
    Zonulin high (leaky gut)
    High anaerobes
     
  6. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @Banana94 if you feel great when you eat nothing, you are lucky! that has never been the case with me, sadly.

    I have been with KDM for 5 yrs and he has helped me a lot....but my leaky gut is still severe, probably because I have had the illness for too long. I also cheat on the diet a lot.

    I think you are on the right track with KDM. I do know someone whose leaky gut normalized with KDM.
     
    Olena likes this.
  7. unicorn7

    unicorn7 Senior Member

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    I am waiting on some results, so I do not have the latest updates yet.

    When I first did a microbiome test, I had high bacteroides, no bifido's and high clostridium. I got clindamycine 6 days, 12 days rifaximine and then the rest probiotics (only biokult). After three months of this, I was a lot better. I went from moderate to mild. My CD14 was down, prostaglandines were down. Zonulin was still too high. My IBS was almost non existent anymore. I have a very strict diet and I am really strict with it.

    I then took only probiotics (mutaflor) and supplements for 6 months. In the mean time, I overdid it enormously. Worked a lot, went on holiday:rofl: Then I did another microbiome test. In between the testing and the waiting for results, I totally collapsed. Not a lot of difference yet in the microbiome, except for the clostridium that went up. All the other markers were up again, prostaglandines, cd14 etc. So I got vancomycine (for the clostridium?) for three months and then rifaximine on and off for 4 months and now I am waiting for my test (was done after the second rifaximine round). I got the blood test already: cd 14, ammonia are normal now, prostaglandines are lowered:thumbsup: So I'm really curious about the zonulin and microbiome:nervous:

    I can feel the rifaximine is keeping my SIBO in line, after two weeks of probiotics I can feel my gut getting a little bit more bloated.When I start rifaximine, it's instantly gone. So for me, taking probiotics is very different after a round of rifaximine.

    I still haven't got my energy back after the collapse, I had way more stamina before that time. I feel a lot better again, but not like before, so I can only hope that I can have the positive effect again and keep myself from getting overexcited.

    He told me that I could not get my energy back (or start doing more) before the gut was fixed. After that there will be careful rehabilitation combined with IV's to get the energy back (kickstart the mitochondria is how I think it sounds). He told me he sometimes sees people feeling better from fixing the gut (like I had in the beginning), but most of the times you have to wait until it is fixed, start rehabilitation and then you see a big improvement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Olena, JadeD and ljimbo423 like this.
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Daffodil do you know you have bad leaky gut by way of symptoms or by CD14 test?

    did the person who healed their leaky gut go into remission from CFS?

    @unicorn7 what is the diet recommendation for leaky gut that KDM gives?
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  9. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    @knackers323 - You might want to take a look at this. A 13 yo girl with cfs when into complete remission by treating leaky gut.

    EDIT- They consistently monitored the levels of LPS entering her bloodstream from a leaky gut. Her recovery went hand in hand with her LPS blood levels dropping!

    -case-report-leaky-gut.pdf

    Jim
     

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  10. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    @knackers323 sCD14 test shows leaky gut still severe for me

    person who resolved leaky gut is better but not totally well.

    age and duration of illness are important
     
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @ljimbo423 interesting. Be nice if were possible to get the lps test. You had it done?

    I wonder how big a part the ivig played in the recovery and what exactly it was treating. The gut seems to play a role for many of us it just doesn't seem like the whole story.

    How does getting a virus or having a car accident or other seemingly unrelated trigger fit with the guy being the cause and why are their so few remissions from treating the gut? Maybe the treatment is too hard for many to follow.

    I myself feel much better when I dont eat but the benefits seem to only get to a certain point. The gut seems like it might be a consequence of something else or a co problem.

    Definitely worth looking at though. Is fruit allowed on the leaky gut diet?
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  12. unicorn7

    unicorn7 Senior Member

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    Cd14 is directly related with LPS, Maureen Hanson confirmed that recently.

    KDM does a IGg test for food. That test gives you some foods you can’t eat at all, some foods to rotate.
    He also tests lactose and fructose malabsorbtion. I also did some elimination testing with histamine and fructose with the dietician.

    The leaky gut diet described in the paper is low carb, no gluten, no milk products.
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  13. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    Here is my stooltest. Is it worth to take the risk of taking rifaximin?
    If i take probiotics i get a big energycrash. 3 days of hell.
    If i can't take probiotics after rifaximin it's even more risky.

    If i look at people's stooltests they all look worse after antibiotics.
    Doesn't look so bad i think
     

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  14. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    @Lucky luke Yes I took Rifaximin, 3 month no effects, no side effects.
    For me this stool test looks pretty well. why do you wanna take Rifaximin? SIBO?
    I think Rifaximin is rare in side effects, but it is still an ABX an can damage your gut. But its rather rare I think.
     
  15. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    @Lucky luke whats you diagnose from KDM? Gut? Infections?SIBO?
     
  16. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    Thanks for looking!
    De meirleir put it in my treatment plan.
    I never could talk to him about it.
    5 minutes and you are outside again.
    I don't consider myself having SIBO. I totally don't have digestive issues.
    Only i get headaches after a lot of fructose, sugar or milk.
    If i have PEM i crave a lot of sugar, carbs.
    So for years drank a lot raw milk or sugary drinks.
    Probably have dysbiose.

    High cytoxines
    High ammonia, Leaky gut because zonuline is 172 (range 10.00 to 110)
    It said clostridium is high 7.1 and 3.29
    Low paraprevotella and bifidobacterium
    High anaerobes

    My diagnose is inflammatory syndrome or infection syndrome
    He thinks it's tularemia but i tested low positive. Need another test to confirm.
    But during my bloodtest i had a very bad coldvirus so i'm not sure what to believe anymore.
    First he thought lyme
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  17. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Your results look pretty good! So I would personally NOT take any antibiotics.
    You could benefit from upping your bifidobacteria by other means than taking probiotics directly.
    The diversity is pretty good too. No "overgrowth" of bacteroides or firmicutes.
    I wished my microbiome looked like yours.
     
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  18. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    My results
     

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  19. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    @Lucky luke Your Ammonia is pretty high which can be cause by dysbiosis. Be fore taking ABX on your point I would first try a ketogenic diet (cut out all carbs/ dairy/ gluten). And try fixing leaky gut with a leaky gut protocol.
    If this doesn't work you can try ABX. Thats my opinion...
     
    Thinktank likes this.
  20. Lucky luke

    Lucky luke

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    Thanks. Thinktank and banana94
    Cutting out all carbs is not possible for me. I have severe adrenal fatique.
    Cortisol very low. 2 (range 6 to 12)
    If i cut out carbs i crash and get more insomnia.
    Even have to eat before bed or else i can't sleep.
    Maybe i have to eat a little bit less protein for the ammonia and more vegetables.
    Think also that diet is better to solve it.
    Just found out i have fructose malabsorption and high igg for eggwhites.
    If i cut that out it will probably get better.
     

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