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KCL job ad: "to develop a novel CBT web based intervention to prevent the onset of chronic fatigue"

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Dolphin, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Full title (can't fit it all in):
    KCL job ad: "to develop a novel CBT web based intervention to prevent the onset of chronic fatigue following an acute episode of fatigue."


    @Maxwhd on Twitter found this

    https://www.hirewire.co.uk/HE/1061247/MS_JobDetails.aspx?JobID=58637

    (Not a recommendation)

     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  2. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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    @Dolphin said "(Not a recommendation)"
    You are so right... NOT a recommendation.

    But we do need to be aware of these things... (sigh)
     
  3. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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    (It is entirely possible that I am mis-reading this job posting.)
    Is the aim to produce a web-based CBT intervention to prevent PEM?
     
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    A zombie by any other name is still a zombie.
     
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    It is to produce a web-based CBT intervention. But given this is KCL (home of Simon Wessely, Trudie Chalder et al.) it won't necessarily focus on PEM specifically.
     
  6. Purple

    Purple Bundle of purpliness

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    So... they don't know for sure (or care very much) what causes the acute state but they want to prevent the chronic state (again - they don't know what causes the chronic state... and by their own conflicting 'research', it would be a result of pretty much every and at the same time no 'contributing factor' they ever 'researched'/used questionnaires for)... and they want to prevent the chronicity (which nobody, as of now, knows how it's caused) by a piece of internet software.

    I hope we are not seeing future of all medicine here.

    (my bolding)
    Didn't they already develop a theory-based treatment model (GET/CBT) that they tested, over and over again, and which showed, over and over again, that it doesn't work... and now they want to develop a 'definite' model and go straight to making it into an internet based 'treatment' application. Words fail me.
     
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  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] etc. etc. and so on.:mad:
     
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  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    One of the hallmarks of a lot of this research is the focus on fatigue. Its all about fatigue. They want to prevent it. They do not address PEM, they do not address the science behind PEM, and if they ever tried they would find it debunks many of their key assumptions.

    Fatigue is neither a key marker nor a good one to track for interventions. We can do much better these days.
     
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  9. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    They want to prevent patients from reporting it.

    :zippit:
     
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  10. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    I was citing their goal - the outcome is likely to be poor if they use objective methods. So far a change in attitude is the only reliable finding, and that is for a minority.
     
    Sean likes this.
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    Reading between the lines, I'd guess that the purpose is to prevent post-viral or post-cancer-treatment fatigue from turning into Oxford Chronic Fatigue. So their intent is that it'll prevent supposedly psychosomatic beliefs from developing after real illnesses :rofl:
     
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  12. WillowJ

    WillowJ คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl

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    maybe we should volunteer :cool:
     
  13. Bob

    Bob

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    That was one of my initial thoughts about it, and I even thought "oh, that's a good idea - they're going to teach people to carefully pace themselves in order to minimise the potential damage from acute onset ME." (I'd just woken up, and wasn't thinking clearly!)

    Then I realised that it's most likely the opposite of that - they will probably teach patients to ignore and disregard their symptoms so a pattern of (theoretically alleged but discredited) symptom-focusing doesn't establish itself; and they will probably train patients to push-through their symptoms to avoid (theoretically alleged but discredited) deconditioning setting in.

    So it could be a way of seriously damaging ME patients for the long-term, before the patient has a chance to understand their illness and implement an adaptive and protective response to the illness. If that is the case then it would be utterly devoid of morality, and it would be potentially deeply harmful, based upon the way we know that patients need to protect themselves from PEM especially in the early days of illness. For the patients who have ME or SEID rather than simply a spell of fatigue, such an approach will be dangerous and damaging.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to have a rant, but this is a really annoying development, and it's more wasted money. It staggers me how these people seem to have an endless pot of money at their disposal every time they come up with another stupid idea based on discredited theories, hypotheses and research. Sigh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
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  14. wdb

    wdb Senior Member

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    To be fair it only mentions chronic fatigue, nowhere does it mention CFS or ME. For people with chronic fatigue only who do not meet criteria for ME/CFS this may not be entirely inappropriate. Though knowing them I doubt they will make that distinction (if they even acknowledge that distinction) and will most likely push this treatment way beyond the bounds of where it might be reasonable.
     
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  15. UK's Conservative scumbags just announced they are considering stopping Child Support benefit to those with more than 3 children
    All this crap is really about evading a huge problem and that is caring for poor and sick people in a society we've screwed over and poisoned by 150 years of toxic damage, epigenetic effects of such etc.

    The Psychobabble bullshit is part of the scheme to unravel the modern Democratic Socialist systems set up after WW1 and WW2 to drag our ass backward nations into the modern era, to let citizens not live in fear of illness and disability, and to end the power of the Elite who kept dragging us into one insane war after another for their benefit while crowing about our "heroic soldiers" then letting then die on the streets in poverty

    Well, the Elite are fighting back and are winning, this is another tool for them

    Recently the BBC had article claiming how poison gas in WW1 wasn't that effective, because there weren't many folk claiming disability for gas in the later 1920s
    Of course there weren't many such folk alive as they had bloody DIED as a result of the lung and other damage by then! Mustard gas destroys immune and endocrine systems. The phosgene types did so much lung damage the 1918 Flu and others scythed through the poor sods.

    Death of a thousand lying cuts across society.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
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  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Yep and if they can make a person feel guilty or whatever way they stop a person from reporting it.. the person is apparently suddenly cured of CFS even if it is shown the person is actually doing physically the same or even worst
    ........

    umm I wonder how on they would know who is going to get CFS or not before they even get it and haven't been diagnosed??? their study is about preventing the onset of it. It appears to me their science is getting more and more ridiculous.
     
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  17. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Its probably going to be even more stupid then that. They think things like CFS is the result of a bad childhood.. so probably will take childhood abuse victims..all females of cause.. and try to prevent CFS developing (from cases which aren't even ME/CFS) and then declare how they helped all these people. Will they even have a control group? What's the bet they don't.

    This study sounds like it has potential to be one of the worst studies yet..
     
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  18. Bob

    Bob

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    They never make any distinction. For them, CF=CFS=ME=Oxford. But in any case, the study methodology would not allow for a distinction to be made between patients who will later develop ME and patients who will have a period of chronic fatigue; unless perhaps they are ruthlessly screening for patients who exhibit any sign of post exertional exacerbation. But PEM might not be obvious or predictable in the early stages of ME. I would place a bet that they will treat all patients in the same way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
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  19. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    Desired skills: ability to work miracles and/or magic.
     
  20. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    That was my take too.
     

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