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Just started methylation protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by harrycat, Jul 16, 2011.

  1. harrycat

    harrycat

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    Ok I have started yesterday on the simplified protocol. I took one multi yesterday and slept well.

    Today I have taken 2 multis, 2 drops b12 and 1/4 folinic capsule. About an hour after the folinic my ankles started hurting, this spread to my feet, knees, calves, wrists, elbows and finally hands. The discomfort is typical of my old fibromyalgia pain, which I don't get anymore.

    Strangely I feel mentally much more alert than usual it's gone 10pm and I'm not yawning!

    My other half asked me to explain why I was getting the old pains back and I couldn't give him a decent explan. What is likely going on in my body?

    I took the methylation panel btw and awaiting results. I did have very low cq10 and glutathione in previous testing so sure methylation is gonna be an issue. Thanks.
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Just a guess from someone who has experience with these supplements. You may be taking too high a dose. The effects can "creep up on you," then slam you--detox. Most start with lower doses.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
  3. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    Good luck, harrycat. I'll be following your progress.

    I had a lot of wrist/finger tingling/pain in the beginning. It's better now.
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I think you're going waaaay too fast. My suggestion would be to discontinue and get back to a baseline of no pain. Then restart with one multi. Gradually add each new supplement and gradually build up to a full dose. If you have any problems, go back to a dose that was more comfortable.

    This is called starting LOW and going SLOW. Start ONE THING AT A TIME so you know what is doing what. Take notes on your symptoms as you start each supplement. This was advice from my environmental medicine doc which I've followed over the years and it's kept me out of a lot of trouble.

    The methylation protocol can have a 3-6 week delay for symptoms. This in Rich's explanation article, along with various adverse effects caused by going too fast.

    Yes, this takes a lot of patience, but you'll get there eventually.
  5. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    The "old FM pains" that have restarted for you are a good sign and it is something you would want to pay attention to, so that they do not become debilitating in their healing. You are starting to fire those nerves and they are going to let you know about it, but as with others, my pain also came and went. Several times. Be aware that "detox", especially in the earlier start of the methylation protocols, can very well indicate an "induced folate deficiency", in which some of us here have experienced due to folic acid intake.

    Good Luck!!!

    LaurieL
  6. harrycat

    harrycat

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    Thanks for all the advice. How do I know if I have detox or induced folate deficiency then?! Can I get this info from my methylation panel?
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Harrycat,

    Having had decades of expeirience with fibro pain and having successfully gotten rid of it the best candidate I can point at is folinic acid. There mightr also be folic acid in the multi. Also if there is NAC or other glutathione precursors in your program I would strongly suggest that yopu get rid of all those things as they can all cause folate dficiency in one way or another causing rapid increases in these pains. However, with mb12 if results are being had then nerves can be waking up to pain that had disappeared years ago as the nerves stopped working.
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Harrycat,

    Be aware that low potassium is the number one side effect from successful methylation startup which can cause lots of pain among other things but "fibro pain" is not typical of low potassium. On the other hand induced folate deficiency can cause all sorts of pain including the characteristic "fibro pain" within 24 hours. To know, all you have to do is get rid of folic acid from all sources, folinic acid from all sources, elliminate whey, NAC, glutathione, direct glutathione precursors form your diet and increase Metafolin to 1600mcg with each meal and a couple of more similar doses on an empty stomach at various times during the day. This will usually start reversing the induced folate deficiency symptoms otherwise known as "detox" within a few days.
  9. slayadragon

    slayadragon Senior Member

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    My experience is that trigger point pains consistently kick in after I do any kind of effective methylation type detox, take cholestyramine (also prompts detox), aggressively kill viruses, or get hit with a big toxic exposure.

    My belief is that the sludge from the toxins or pathogen remains moves slowly through the lymph and gets held up at the bottlenecks of the trigger points.

    I'd like to know if other people have had this experience.

    The things that I've found to be helpful for this are neural therapy and the probiotic ThreeLac. (I wish I understood why the ThreeLac matters so much for it.)

    Of course, I agree with what everyone else here says about overall strategy. "Low and slow" at the beginning seems a good idea, and folinic acid is something that a lot of people don't appear to do well with.
  10. harrycat

    harrycat

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    This is really interesting thanks everyone for their responses.

    Freddd - I have been taking a multi with 400 mcg folic acid and glutathione tablets for a year now and steadily improved so surely I'm ok with these things? Now I've switched to the simplified protocol in full however just one drop of the methylmate b so far though. My skin has already improved noticeably and did so from the first drop of hydroxy b12. My neck felt a bit looser after the folinic acid whilst everywhere else was achy. Weird as my neck is the worst bit of me these days!

    Slayadragon - really interested about threelac helping I'd read somewhere that it was a really poor probiotic! What do I know !!;)

    I know low and slow, but I want to start a family asap and biological clock ticking and all that. I'm hoping I'm in reasonable enough shape to cope after having done myhills protocol for 18 months.
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Harrycat,

    If you were folate deficient when you started glutathione and folic acid and stayed more or less that way you would never notice the detrimental effects but might notice whatever benefits you got from them. You have to have some improvment in order to notice their detriments.

    So if you are succeeding at getting methylation started and it comes and goes, that coming and going is characteristic of the intermittant nature the inducerd folate deficiency at times, especially if right on the edge. The effects of folate deficiency from any casue is frequently called "detox". However, if you would rather go with your assumptions, that's your choice but you will never KNOW. You can alwasy go back to the glutathjione and folic acid. You need to make some comparisons to really know. You are having the folate deficiency type pains coming and going and you are taking two separate things that could be casuing you two different forms of folate deficiency. If you are sucessful in getting methylationj going well, taking mb12 and Metafolin, your own body will generate all the glutathione you need. Stalled methylation and stalled glutathione production are results of mb12/methylfolate deficiencies, not causes. You are trying to push string.
  12. harrycat

    harrycat

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    Going to give this protocol a couple of months as per rich's suggestion. If things are not improving I will try freddd's suggestions but I think I need to give this a go first.

    Re potassium which is the best form to take? Thanks again.
  13. harrycat

    harrycat

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    I'm getting some intermittent numbness in the base of my thumbs and tingling in my fingers. I never had this before though used to have a lot of hand pain. I read the thread on neuropathy and I'm still confused as to whether this is a sign blood flow is increasing or something I should worry about / respond to. Many thanks it is so helpful to have people's advice in these early stages.
  14. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    I don't really know what to make of the numbness/tingling, harrycat.

    When I was treated for cancer, I developed severe tingling/pain of my hands/lower arms. Rich has said that it is customary to give activated folates along with chemo drugs. The pain was like fire at times, waking me up at night. When I drove, it was very difficult to hold my hands in the driving position due to tingly pain.

    When I started the tiny, tiny doses of methylfolate and mB12 in February of this year, I got the same types of sensations, but much less intense than I experienced during chemo. I realize that there are several interpretations of this - of course, the chemo drugs themselves were probably capable of having this effect. But I believe that my more recent symptoms are "mini versions" of what I experienced with the presumably large doses of activated folates.

    During cancer treatment, my CFS fatigue/weakness was greatly diminished (I never really pressed it to see if it was gone). I currently have much less weakness/fatigue, due to the supplements I started in February, but I still have other symptoms that seem to have been exacerbated by the supplements. It's complicated.

    I believe that the supplements have long-lasting effects. Recall that Rich has said that some of the negative symptoms seem to have "momentum." While it's too late for you to begin at lower doses, I do encourage you to drop way down on the supplements.

    In the past several months, I had started taking "diluted speck doses" of other vitamins, such as biotin, B6, thiamine, and some others. I stopped them recently because I want to add them again, but do it much more slowly so I can try to sort things out.

    I do sympathize with you and what you are going through. I'm muddling through this too, and I will continue to follow your progress.

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