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Just got my Methylation and Detox Profile Results: can the Experts Kindly Provide Commentary Please

Discussion in 'Genetic Testing and SNPs' started by Hip, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I don't know if there's an additional mechanism with methylcobalamin specifically, but in general I think it's methylation itself that causes the hypokalemia. I know someone that was taking high doses of methylcobalamin, but didn't have problems until they added methylfolate. Also, as I mentioned earlier, when Freddd and dbkita added B2 and R5P that increased their need for potassium.
  2. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    I have taken vitamin B2 for as long as I have been taking methylation supplements. At the doses I am at, I do not have potassium issues, and my healing progresses.

    The reason I have spoken up is my concern that the two very different active B's used in the methylation protocol target two very different processes, and that one is being completely ignored by most of us, while doing the other. Add methylfolate into the mix, and one could have some very serious problems. And we have seen that in some here.

    You mentioned the additional mechanism. Let me throw this out there if you are interested. Adenosylcobalamin is the neuro B vitamin. Lack of AdoB12 leads to all sorts of neurological damage. Methylcobalamin is the DNA vitamin. Folate not folic acid is the myelin vitamin. Methylfolate does not affect adenosylcobalamin supplementation, but it does have an adverse consequence when supplemented with methylb. That adverse consequence can result in hypokalemia and gout. And that is megablastic anemia. Supplement this anemia with methylb and you mask the folate deficiency. Supplement large doses of methylb with folate, and you have some serious methyl trapping going on.

    MethylB is through the MTR enzyme and adenosylcobalamin is through the MUT enzyme. Why ignore the second half, the concurrent half that belongs alongside methylation and active B supplementation? It is adenosylcobalamin that is stored in the body, in the liver, not methylcobalamin. I suspect what we will be discovering in the near future is that adenosylcobalamin in high doses with very conservative doses of methylfolate and methylcobalamin, lead to bigger, and maintained improvements, and less complications and roadblocks.

    I have no extra need for potassium but I do however need L-Carnitine.

    LaurieL

    I would also like to add, that it is adenosylcobalamin that is used by the mitochondria, not methylb. I can't speak for everyone here, but I have mitochondrial problems, TCA problems, methylation problems, and detox problems. These all go together for wellness.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  3. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I'm not sure if this is significant or not, but Nandixon said that vitamin A (in forms other than beta carotene) can inhibit SHMT (just as folinic acid inhibits SHMT for Freddd causing folate deficiency).
    This is from Rich about what happens if the SHMT reaction is inhibited. He's talking about folinic acid, but I think Nandixon was saying that vitamin A could also have the same effect.
    There's more information about SHMT, MTHFS, and folinic acid in this thread
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...d-intolerance-request-for-genetic-data.19168/

    I still think your experience with SAMe might be significant. I don't know what it means or if there's anything that could be done (I wouldn't want to try to "push through" depression). But it is important to note that it's one of the only methylation supplements that causes a reaction of some kind for you.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Thanks, that's interesting. I couldn't find any references to vitamin A inhibiting SHMT when I Googled it; but in any case I think I will stop taking vitamin A for a while, and see if that helps.
  5. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    This could just be wild goose chase (just as the B2/R5P angle I mentioned might also), but I figured you would at least want to have all the information available so you could consider all the variables. You seem to have a better grasp of health issues on a technical level so maybe you can piece it all together and come up with something. However, I talked to dbkita about vitamin A inhibiting SHMT and this is what he said:
    25,000 iu does seem like a high dose though. I am concerned about retinol blocking vitamin D though. That's why I'm only taking beta carotene. My vitamin d hydroxy 25 and dihydroxy 1,25 were both low even though I was taking 6000 iu of vitamin D. Have you had your vitamin d levels tested? I have considered taking some of my vitamin a in the form of retinol. I'm not sure if I have brain inflammation, but it seems like it might be a common issue. And I'm also not sure if I'm converting enough of the beta carotene into retinol. With many of these supplements you treat on condition, but then it potentially has a detrimental impact on something else. Just as another example, alpha lipoic acid can cause a biotin deficiency. Biotin is a good supplement to take regardless of whether you're taking ALA, but a lot of people don't have comprehensive supplement regimen and even then you might be missing out on something.
  6. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    As for the vitamin D dihydroxycholecalciferol, this is what dbkita told me
    and this is what Ema told me


  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Hip
    Have you tried lithium? That's supposed to help with brain inflammation, but also B12 transport. This is what greenshots said:
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Coincidentally enough, I read the same thing last week, and have just begun to include lithium in my methylation regimen (125 mg of lithium orotate daily, providing 5 mg of lithium). We'll see if any improvements appear.

    I have also stopped taking vitamin A, in case this is inhibiting SHMT.
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I've been taking lithium for a couple of months. I'm not sure it's helped my anxiety or depression, but most of my supplements I can't tell whether they're working or not. I was thinking about dropping it until I read about the B12 transport and brain inflammation thing.

    Are you also taking zinc and P5P for SHMT? dbkita seemed to think some retinol was good, but I don't know how much is too much.

    And have you tried R5P also? It's hard to know what step is blocked without getting tested (which is expensive), but you saw how big an impact B2 and R5P had on dbkita and Freddd so for some people it does seem to be important.
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Lotus97

    I have tried zinc and P5P, without seeing any major benefits. Though I have not yet tried riboflavin 5 phosphate (R5P), and I think I ought to really.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    If you do switch to beta carotene, zinc is a cofactor in converting it into retinol. I'm actually thinking of taking some retinol and just upping my vitamin D dossage. P5P is still important for folate metabolism and all of the b vitamins are important for various functions. B2 and B3 recycle glutathione for example. And most of them are involved in Krebs which would also help increase glutathione.
  12. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    This isn't an easy answer but my doc used methylation, nervous system, and immune supports for us and that seemed to make all the difference in the world! Knowing your nervous system type seems to help by supporting with the right stuff whereas knowing your biggest immune or infection issues helps with using the right immune factors. As for the methylation stuff, that is all about layering and when I see the mention about TMG for a couple weeks without anything major happenng.......well.......I wouldn't expect anything major, other then maybe some detox. If you get on the right mix,,its gonna be more about overlapping the right things, with the other variables mentioned, and then some time. It took us decades to get in this fix so it usually takes at least a couple years to get out and thats hard to stomach let alone wait for! But it seems to be consistent in my biomed group's recovery, too. So if you try something but stop some of them when there's no big change, its probably going to be premature. It took 9-12 months for me to see some heavy improvements and I really can't say that any one thing completely knocked my socks off.

    In your case, I don't see snps that are that big of a deal considering the low number of defects but the detox profile seems pretty important. i don't know allot about that panel but my doc has worked with people she says don't always have terrible methylation panels but when she combines the detox panel with the toxic triggers they've had its really telling. It seems to me you might be one of the one of the ones she was talking about. Like Caledonia said, the SHMT and CBS are important but overall, your panel is not that bad. On average, the people in my biomed group had an average of 14-18 defects and Several of us have 22 or 24 of them. Seems like your toxic load and infections may be one heckuva big deal.



  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Thanks for your comments, greenshots.

    So you are saying that I ought to look into my detox panel a bit more, to see if can support the weak detox pathways.

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