Looking Ahead to Change: Little by Little
I don't make New Year's Resolutions. I don't think I ever really did, but the last decade or two would have been enough to stifle that impulse. I've just been too aware that I don't have that much control over what happens in my life.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Just asking for a little help to get started

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by optimist, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Hello!

    For the last days I've been trying to read up on the B12-protocols and methylation. I am trying to get to the core of the issue, but the more I read the more I confused I get. There is Fred's protocol. There are posts all over, and some are no longer valid. Then there is Rich Van Konynenburg's protocol, Yasko, Myhill, The Italian Housewife and some other people. My head is just not really able to process, sort out and understand all of this, and I can't seem to find a summary, step by step guide.

    When I started reading, I saw a list of supplements and since I have to order from the UK or Sweeden, one jar at a time to avoid paying toll, I thought I should start ordering the basics. But just as I had ordered two jars, I found that there was now a newer list, and that at least one of the jars was no longer recommended. Mnnnhgnaaaahhh!:bang-head: (hehehehee, just kidding:lol:)

    The two jars I ordered are: Jarrow Formulas 5mg Methyl B12 and Country Life Dibencozide (adenosylb12). Perhaps I can try those anyway?

    So... would somebody be kind enough to help me in understanding what I should start ordering to get started?

    Tanks in advance!
     
    jerrymcfadyen likes this.
  2. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,501
    Likes:
    3,482
    I think you can try those. I never imported any mB12, always got it from my local compounding pharmacy, and boy it IS effective! :thumbsup:

    Be sure to read the documents linked in caledonia and ahmo signatures. Latest uptade if I'm not mistaken is the recommendation to take adB12 only once a week.

    If I could do it from scratch again, I would start by replenishing minerals and the other vitamins (especially B1, B2, B3, B5, B7, C, D, E). Above all, find a form of magnesium that makes you feel goooood. ;)

    Methylation = detox = needs magnesium
    Methylation = increased ATP generation = needs magnesium
     
    melamine likes this.
  3. JAM

    JAM Jill

    Messages:
    419
    Likes:
    475
    I've had the same trouble trying to figure it all out. The brain fog is gone for me, but it is still too much info too scattered, and too much minutia. I'm a systems/macro thinker, when people start talking at the chemical level my brain shuts down. I finally gave up and started taking a B-complex from a brand I trust. It does seem to be helping, but I worry that if I could figure out the maze and be taking the "right" stuff it would help more. Please, keep me updated.
     
    jerrymcfadyen likes this.
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes:
    1,022
    If you are looking into restarting/improving your methylation you will need some methylfolate together with B12. One is necessary for the other in the methylation cycle.

    Since you're going to use possibly high doses of those two nutrients it would be also advisable to take a good B-Complex with no folic acid and cyano-B12, to keep all Bs in balance.

    The usual mantra is to start low and slow. If you have already taken methyl-supplements then the advice may not apply, but if it's the first time it would be better to stay on the safe side.

    A low dose could be 200mcg methyl-folate and 250mcg of B12. If you're particularly sensitive to supplements (in general) then you will probably need to cut that dosage by 2 or even 4.

    Once you have found your comfortable dosage (i.e. no side effects) you can slowly increase it and see if you improve. Keeping a journal is also recommended.

    Good luck
     
  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes:
    1,022
    The summary you have asked for:
    • methylfolate (start with max 200mcg, less if you're generally sensitive to supplements or B vitamins)
    • methyl-B12 (250mcg)
    • adeno-B12. It's not necessary at the beginning, maybe experiment with the methyl form first
    • B complex with no folic acid and cyano-B12
    • optional --> minerals as per Gondwanaland advice
     
    jerrymcfadyen and ahmo like this.
  6. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

    Messages:
    429
    Likes:
    190
    Hayden, Idaho
    I am also doing my second round of methylation, and I am having much more difficulty this time around. I am using Freddd's most updated recommendations, but am having not so lovely side effects. Good luck, and hope you get clarity
     
  7. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes:
    6,507
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    @optimist There's a compilation of Freddds' information in the pdf attached to my signature. I've not yet edited it to add the current instructions to take AdB12 once a week only, on a day when you don't take MB12, to help absorption of both. He suggests AdB12 in a range from 30-50mg. I've settled at 40mg.

    Also see the Dummies guide to Methylation in my sig, from pr member Athene.
     
    jerrymcfadyen likes this.
  8. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Thanks for the replies guys! (A bit long reply coming here):

    @Gondwanaland Yes :) trying to read those and everything else, but my poor head struggles :)
    Regarding the B1, B2, B3, B5, B7, C, D, E - are there any ones that stand out better than others? I've tried several multivitamins, and they all put me in the basement, so I don't dare be taking those again.

    At the moment, this magnesium is the one I am taking: http://www.solaray.no/solaray/magnesium-1.html. Not sure if it is a good one. I've been taking 400mg a day, and felt an improvement in mental energy, so I think at least that they are doing something. Could/should I be taking more?


    @JAM Yes, the medical jargon is superheavy on my braincells too :D If I manage to get this thing going, I will try to make a layman's step by step summary of what I learn.

    @PeterPositive This is my first time that I will try it, but I am really eager to do it properly (and safely). Thanks a lot for the summary! So at the VERY basic, what I need is Methylcobalamin B12 and Methylfolate (B9)?

    @cman89 Really hope that it will work our for you, and all of us! Thanks for the encouragement :D

    @ahmo 40 I've printed the guide in your signature. My brain froze around page four, ahaha :D I will try again. Is this guide holding the latest, except from the adb12 once a week part?
     
  9. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    I am also a bit worried about the potassium deficiency part. I am eating a lot of berries, drinking milk and cream in fair doses each day, so I do have a steady intake of potassium naturally. I also take lactic acid which is very rich in potassium. But I saw somewhere someone suggesting to take 3 capsules 3 times a day. That sounds dangerously much to me?

    I also hear about methyl-trapping and over methylation. It sounds scary, but I haven't yet fully understood what it is...

    Just want to be well prepared so that I do not hurt my self when trying this.
     
  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,329
    Likes:
    6,507
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Yes, as far as I know.

    Methyl-trapping and over-methylation not scary, just predictable possibilities as we shift the ratios. You probably won't need potassium (K+) until you start feeling symptoms, like shortness of breath, heavy or rapid heart beat...others will chime in. 3 caps 3 times a day sounds like 300mg 3 times a day? Not a very large amount. But if you need more in future, Potassium Gluconate powder is very versatile, less upsetting to stomach. Or salt substitute, K+ chloride. As for dosages, I'm tending to use 750mg twice a day in the powder. I put it in footbaths, AM/PM, so I avoid taking it orally. but this type is also very palatable.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
    melamine likes this.
  11. jerrymcfadyen

    jerrymcfadyen Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    264
    East Bend, NC USA
    Thanks for this post, my head's been spinning too. I just gave up trying to figure it all out. The brain fog is just too bad to be able to process it all.
    @ahmo Thanks for the links.
     
    optimist likes this.
  12. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    @jerrymcfadyen and @JAM (and YOU if you're in the same boat as us). Let's get to the bottom of this :)
     
  13. JAM

    JAM Jill

    Messages:
    419
    Likes:
    475
    I'd love to, but I'm full time in graduate school, writing my thesis in a second program, and started a 30 hr week job last month (all from home). My brain would seriously revolt if I tried to get it to read that stuff! lol
     
  14. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
  15. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Happy for you that you are keeping busy! But, we'll get to the bottom anyways by updating eachother :)
     
    JAM likes this.
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,501
    Likes:
    3,482
    This is a cause of concern. I don't think it will work if you don't find a form to take all the Bs. Potassium supplementation won't work well if you are B1 deficient (apparentky high doses of folate can quickly deplete B1 - but it is a cascade actually).

    This sounds good about the magnesium. I'm not familiar with that brand, but citrate and glycinate fit most people. I gauged my magnesium intake to bowel tolerance. I could take 600mg daily for about one month. Now I do not tolerate more than 50mg b/c it lowers my blood pressure too much. I think I have magnesium enough in my body for the time being! This is to remind you that the doses can vary along the road.
     
    melamine likes this.
  17. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    I will make sure to take the B-Complex then. Hopefully it isn't any of those that takes me to the basement.

    Could this one work: http://www.health4youonline.com/biocare-b-plex-60-veg-caps-c2x12239508 ?
    The values seem a bit high, but I am not sure whether that is a good or a bad thing?
     
  18. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes:
    1,022
    It would be best if you could also add a B complex (no folic ac., no B12) to maintain the balance with the other Bs. Personally I've found this very important. Plus B2, B3 and B6 are fundamental for methylation and going out of balance could cause more issues.

    good luck!
     
    optimist likes this.
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,501
    Likes:
    3,482
    Seems like a good one. You can open the capsule and take only 1/2 or 1/3 of it diluted in a little bit of juice.

    Try everything you need before starting methylation.

    Also the deadlock quartet supplements should be titrated up slowly.

    Methylation = detox = there will be lots of inflammation and increased need for antioxidants (vit C, vit E, vit D, perhaps others).

    The toxins will also provoke nutrient deficiencies. You will need zinc, magnesium, potassium, perhaps molybdenum, selenium, manganese.

    Try to find a multimineral as well. Extra niacin for overmethylation. Be prepared.
     
    melamine likes this.
  20. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    @Gondwanaland Wooh! This is where I need to wrap my head around the theory behind so that I understand the mechanisms, and where to put my feet.

    So, guessing that the Deadlock Quartet = mb12, adb12, methylfolate aaaaand? niacin?
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page