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Just a clarify of folate dose on Fredd protocol ?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by daniariete2000, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    Hi ,

    I'm going to start the methilation protocol of Fredd but I have one question :

    • Solgar Metafolin 800mcg + B-Right Complex = 1600 mg of methilfolates ? So much ? I understood correctly that this in the basic dose of protocol ?
    I say this becouse for example Rich used 400 mg in his protocol , exacly 1/4 of dose

    Thanks a lot


    Daniele
     
  2. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Heila Ciao Daniele, are u trying the methylation protocol now?... Have you done any lab test about methylation or you're just trying? i imagine that Gc maf didn't get the results you were hoping for... i tried to contact you several times since we have the same identical symptoms to know what worked for you as far as now... or if nothing ever worked to get relief from your symptoms... i'm writing in english instead of italians so that also other people can read..
     
  3. Gloria H

    Gloria H

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  4. pela

    pela

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    B-right contains folic acid and is no longer recommended
     
  5. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Please read Start Low and Go Slow linked in my signature. The doses mentioned above are final doses, not starting doses.

    The dose for Rich's protocol is 200mcg methylfolate and 200mcg folinic acid, not 400mcg methylfolate. Freddd's protocol doesn't use folinic acid.
     
    helen1 likes this.
  6. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    Hi,

    I didn't start the protocol yet and I ordered this http://www.amazon.com/Pure-Encapsulations-B-Complex-Plus-VegiCaps/dp/B0017L3BO8 since doesn't contein folic acid

    The suggested use of B Complex is 2 tablets a day so it's 800 mg plus 800 of solgar metalfolin

    I read the Freddd's starting protocol considerations but it seems that if you don't have negative reactions is very fast to reach 1600 mg of methylfolate that is much far from 200mcg methylfolate + 200mcg folinic acid that Rich used

    Thanks all

    Daniele
     
  7. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    x joshi81

    Ciaoo..I don't go to CFSItalia since long time. Give me your e-mail and I will show you the methilation panel I did.
    P.S. Yes GcMaf gave me lot of side effects...
     
  8. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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  9. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    There is a lot of different starting plan..

    I was suggested to follow this one :

    Is it too much fast ?? With this starting plan 1600 mg of mrthylfolate is reached quite fast...

    Freddd’s Protocol – Getting Started

    as I understand it and in my own words. 9/27/13

    Assuming you already have the basics like Vitamin B Complex, C, D, calcium, magnesium, zinc and omega 3s in your supplements routine, start by testing:


    1. 1 capsule of L-carnitine fumarate on an empty stomach (available in about 400 – 800 mg capsules)
    If there are no new negative start up symptoms (like feeling super hyped & wired) keep
    taking it every day.
    If there are new negative start up symptoms (like feeling super hyped & wired), you’ll need to titrate up gradually until you’re comfortable with 1 capsule/day. That may mean taking 1/10 of a capsule. As your body gets use to having this long missing nutrient, you’ll gradually increase (titrate up) your daily amount to 1/5 capsule, then 1/2 a capsule etc. until you’re doing 1 capsule daily. You can take days or weeks to do this titrating. Don’t rush your body. When your body is use to 1 capsule of L-carnitine fumerate per day, continue that and start:

    2. 1 Enzymatic Therapy B12 Infusion (1,000 mcg MeB12) after breakfast, placing the tablet
    between upper lip and gum, for as long as it takes to dissolve. When your body is settled with
    this, start:

    3. 1 Solgar Folate (800 mcg Metafolin) with breakfast
    If there are no new start up symptoms (new headaches, rashes, irritabilities, anxieties,
    depressions, joint pains, muscle pains, insomnia, continue with this amount daily.
    If there are new negative start up symptoms (new headaches, rashes, irritabilities,
    anxieties, depressions, joint pains, muscle pains, insomnia) you’ll need to titrate up gradually until you’re comfortable with 1 capsule/day. Then continue the Folate and start:

    4. Country Life Active B-12 Dibencozide (3,000 mcg AdB12), after breakfast, 3 X week, placing
    the tablet between upper lip and gum, for as long as it takes to dissolve.

    5. Potassium (99 mg tablets) taken with a glass of water, as needed, anytime during the introduction of the previous 4 supplements, if new nausea, itching, heart palpitations, weakness, muscle spasms or cramps start happening. For some, several potassium tablets may be needed, several times a day.
     
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Something I would like to say about Methylfolate doses. A 200mcg initial dose is enough to start methylation on at least 1 level but still maintains a partial methylation block. Paradoxical folate insufficiency is just a slightly fancier way of name 1 cause of partial methylation block.

    200mcg will produce far more symptoms than 1600 mcg. Taking 200mcg of Metafolin is like grabbing a tiger by the tail, you are going to be dragged through the mud. Just outright starting methylation produces the brightening of the nervous system. That is a flag of healing. But it is not "over" anything. When one is in methyltrap one has to increase ones level of operation from less than 1% to 100%. Moving from 1% to 5% is a 5x increase and is strongly felt. If one just teases the body that it is not going to be starved to death anymore and then repeatedly starves it, the symptoms get horrid. Low methylfolate produces serious symptoms in some layers and can cause damage in some layers while healing in others. It sure did for me and others.
     
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi daniariete,

    The Anabol Dibencoplex doesn't have the folic acid of Country life. For a lot of us the folic acid is a problems. As far as startup symptoms, typically induced low potassium and donut hole paradoxical folate deficiency, will start witin days. If these are then titrated until those symptoms are gone, it is solved and healing is proceeding. Turing off healing on the only level started over and over causes damage and tremendously prolongs symptoms. That can keep them going for years of non-healing misery.

    The LCF however, when it works, it works with a true proportionality. It is the easiest to titrate to control response and it does top out by about 500mg to 1000mg for most people.

    The potassium to support multi level healing can vary from typically 1200-3000mg depending upon cofactors, based on lots of experience. If more potassium is needed it often comes down to other things out of balance, like b1, b2 and b3.
     
  12. daniariete2000

    daniariete2000

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    Thanks a lot Freddd for your explanation.
    Only an important thing I would like you clarify me about your last words. I will start your protocol but I would like also to be free to stop it for example for 3 weeks if I go to holiday or also forever in any situation will occurr. Are you telling me that if I start the protocol I will be in a sort of trap and if a go out from frotocol I will stay worse and miserable than before starting ? Is this protocol addicted like psychodrug ? Sorry but if so this worry me a lot. There are some way to gradually stop the protocol or what ?

    Thanks a lot

    Daniele
     
  13. skwag

    skwag

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    @daniariete2000

    In my opinion, the Pure encapsulations B complex in not a well balanced B-complex. If your taking it twice a day you'll be getting 200mg of both B1 and B3. I think it is too much. Please see

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/getting-back-to-balance.24134/

    I am not aware of anyone who has had ME/CFS symptoms and who has improved on Freddd's protocol, who then was able to discontinue the protocol without remission. Red04 has likened his wife's condition to a moving train. If supplements are not taken for a period, the effect may not be noticed right away, but her condition will worsen over time as surely as a train will slow without power. However, there is nothing remotely addictive about the protocol, and I can't think of a reason why you would be worse off in the future for trying it now.
     
  14. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Dabiele,

    I will start your protocol but I would like also to be free to stop it for example for 3 weeks

    It would be unfortunate to feel so bad on holiday. MeCbl deficiency symptoms start returning on the 3rd day without. With Methylfolate the first missed dose can trigger the beginning of symptoms. The protocol corrects the lacking vitamins but not why they were lacking. There is damage that does heal over time. There are functional changes that happen quickly. However, what I was referring to was people who stop and start a lot of times so healing never really gets going or has any time to heal. Some of these people get large oscillations of symptoms going that don't make a lot of sense. There is no problem stopping the protocol. The symptoms come back. They don't always heal as well the second or 3rd times as they do the first time. Having Subacute Combined Degeneration in remission is like having MS in remission. You never know when things might go wrong.
     
  15. joshi81

    joshi81 Senior Member

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    Fredd in your opinion it's better to be on the safe side and take potassium as soon as one starts your protocolo for example a tot quantity a day or just when symptoms of deficiency com out?
    And it's better one time a day or various times a day?
    In the first case (to take potassium in advantage) do u suggest a protoco-like of potassium to take when one starts the protocol?
    thank u
     
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Josh,

    I find I need at least 3 or 4 doses spread across the day. A last bedtime dose of 300mg with water is good at keeping me from waking up with problems. A person would have no idea how much to take in advance. The amount that is needed is usually in a range that is broad. Most folks are mot likely to take more than a few hundred mg in advance and they may or may not need as much as 3000mg. Some other vitamins can drive that even higher.
     

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