Juice Fasting

[Sammy]

Lisa sick from the early 90's its wasted a lot of my life. Got worse ever since 2007 - mouldy unit. Funny thing is it looked awsome from the outside and not looking real closely at it. They kept repainting.

WPI is whey protein Isolate and the C stands for Concentrait. A large 12week cycle of cyprofloxin totaly stuffed my sleep(along with severe yeast symptoms) back in 2000, feel like kicking that doctors arse ;> scary thing is I could easyerly do it if I wanted to. Have had to take medication every night since then which adds to my temper. I jus say it how it is, dont like it I dont care. This is all bringing back memories.... ;>. Im outta hear....

Here is a blog I found about juice cleansing that I think is pretty good.

http://myjuicecleanse.com/


Here, she talks about the idea of a modified juice fast for various reasons, including for people with immune system issues.

http://myjuicecleanse.com/juicecleanse/what-is-a-modified-juice-fast/


Sammy, how long have you been sick? Have you gotten much worse in your current environment?

From the case studies that I've seen so far, it's seeming to me that people who get CFS (or who decline precipitously) generally are living with particularly problematic toxins -- ones that, once they're sick, can drive them down into severe illness even in tiny amounts. A lot of people have found that just washing their belongings isn't enough to remediate them, and that they're better off just putting them aside and starting over.

Of course, this is a real commitment to do.

I have seen a few people who have been sick for a longer period of time do well by just washing their belongings (and discarding ones that cannot be washed). My feeling is that they were being exposed to toxins that are less problematic -- that are problems in large quantities but not in tiny amounts. (Molds make all kinds of toxins, only some of which appear to be real killers.)

You would think that "just" washing everything and discarding everything that cannot be washed always would be helpful, and I imagine that it actually is at some level (e.g. preventing people from continuing to decline into the future). In terms of the rapid gains in functionality that people doing mold avoidance have reported here and elsewhere though, that doesn't seem to be enough to make it happen if the toxins are really problematic.

I don't know much about amino acids and am interested in your experiences.

I'm not sure what WPIs and WPCs are.

Best, Lisa

 

[Tara]

Wouldn't it be nice to create our own special 'Gerson-like' Institute for CFS/ME patients to go, to practice this lifestyle of nutrition, cleansing, healing, and support?! Maybe Dr. Rich and Freddd could run it

 

[Tara]

Based on the following text from the Gerson site, I'd gather us NOT to be successful, prospective candidates for Gerson Therapy...

What conditions does the Gerson Therapy show good success?

While there is an exception to every situation and every case is different due to how advanced it is before starting the therapy and whether there has been chemotherapy pre-treatment, the therapy has had repeatedly good results with the following diseases: melanoma, lymphoma, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, Duke’s C colorectal cancer, Systemic Lupus Erythematosis. We are continuing to do more research into our patient base over the past 10 years to obtain more current information.

What conditions do not respond well to the Gerson Therapy?

There are certain types of cancer that do not respond well or do not respond at all. These include acute leukemia, pancreatic cancer after treatment with chemotherapy, and brain cancers other than an early stage astrocytoma. We have little or no experience with uncommon conditions of a congenital or genetic origin and would not expect the Therapy to reverse these conditions although overall health may be enhanced. Parkinson’s disease, especially after the use of dopamine drugs, does not respond well to the therapy. Neither does ALS (Lou Gehrig’s Disease).

The Gerson Therapy should not be administered to organ or stem cell transplant recipients or people on kidney dialysis

Can the Gerson Therapy treat rare or uncommon genetic conditions?

Unfortunately, we have had little or no experience at the Gerson clinic with rare conditions or those of a genetic or congenital origin. These conditions present unique challenges and it is unlikely that there would be reversal or complete recovery from utilizing the Gerson Therapy. Our experience is with the more common cancers and certain chronic degenerative conditions. However, since the Gerson Therapy is a whole-body therapy designed to improve overall health through an organic nutrient dense diet, fresh juices and detoxification, utilizing the therapy has the potential to improve your overall health and give your body the best opportunity for optimal functioning and enhanced quality of life.

 

[ukxmrv]

I'd not be a volunteer either based on the very bad reactions that I have to dietry changes that they describe. This makes my health much, much worse.

If juice fasts and general simple nutrition cured ME and CFS then none of us would need to be here.

 

[Tara]

Too bad. It seems easier to cure cancer (ie the Gerson Method), than CFS/ME. And they get all the glory...

 

[slayadragon]

Below is what the book (written by Charlotte Gerson et al) that I have says about the appropriateness of the Gerson Therapy for CFS.

I've done a modified version of what they suggest and feel that it's been very detoxifying for me. This was the case even though I didn't cut down the fat or the protein to the really low levels that they recommend, continued to have small amounts of salt and didn't take all the supplements. Perhaps at some point, I will try doing it 100% just to see what happens.

Gerson is very labor- and time-intensive. Most really sick CFS patients would have a hard time making all that juice and doing all those enemas. A helper might be required.

The juice has a lot of sugar in it. That seems to have the potential of feeding candida. I would not do this diet without adding a good bit of homemade kefir or yogurt, to address candida.

CFS patients seem to benefit more than many people from animal protein. This may be because trichothocenes are protein synthesis inhibitors. Gerson includes no protein at all, but I think that may not be appropriate for CFS. (It's more appropriate in cancer.)

I think the "difficulties in management" they mention are due to the fact that biotoxins (the toxins that seem particularly associated with CFS) are neurotoxins with specific psychological effects. I've experienced and observed this as being a factor during the detox process in this disease myself, and the fact that they mention it makes me more convinced that they have experience with this population.

As with all detox treatments, I tend to think that people doing this while living in a bad place (in terms of either outdoor or indoor air, especially with regard to biotoxins but perhaps other toxins as well) would have a really hard time of it. Considering addressing environmental issues first may be a good idea.

Best, Lisa

*

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gerson-Th...ie=UTF8&qid=1345375024&sr=8-1&keywords=gerson

>People suffering from the series of symptoms identified as CFIDS or CFS get along just fine on the Gerson program, but they should see significant improvement after a short time, with recovery after about nine months. These Gerson Treatment participants are allowed to have the full 13 glasses of juice daily if desire.

>CFS patients commonly feel worse after taking enemas in the early stages of treatment because of toxicity escaping from their body cells. Two enemas daily are normally suggested initially, working up to four.

>Too many enemas can trigger strong adverse reactions. And patients with chronic fatigue syndrome tend to experience extremely strong emotional responses, such as depression and crying, during and between reaction periods. From a psychological perspective, they often present difficulties in management.

 

[peggy-sue]

I very firmly believe that "toxins" are just another invention of promoters of quackery - unless it's from something real, ie. septicaemia.
I take my coffee by mouth, thank-you very much, and I'll drink juices and fast if I want to.

edited to add.
This is a link to Quackwatch, (provided just today, by Calathea - thanks! )
http://www.quackwatch.org/index.html
This is a quote from it.
"18. They Use Disclaimers Couched in Pseudomedical Jargon.

Instead of promising to cure your disease, some quacks will promise to "detoxify," "purify," or "revitalize" your body; "balance" its chemistry or "electromagnetic energy"; bring it in harmony with nature; "stimulate" or "strengthen" your immune system; "support" or "rejuvenate" various organs in your body; "unlock your body's healing ability"; or stimulate your body's power to heal itself. Of course, they never identify or make valid before-and-after measurements of any of these processes. These disclaimers serve two purposes. First, since it is impossible to measure the processes quacks allege, it may be difficult to prove them wrong. Moreover, if a quack is not a physician, the use of nonmedical terminology may help to avoid prosecution for practicing medicine without a license—although it shouldn't.
Some approaches to "detoxification" are based on notions that, as a result of intestinal stasis, intestinal contents putrefy, and toxins are formed and absorbed, which causes chronic poisoning of the body. This "autointoxication" theory was popular around the turn of the century but was abandoned by the scientific community during the 1930s. No such "toxins" have ever been found, and careful observations have shown that individuals in good health can vary greatly in bowel habits. Quacks may also suggest that fecal material collects on the lining of the intestine and causes trouble unless removed by laxatives, colonic irrigation, special diets, and/or various herbs or food supplements that "cleanse" the body. The falsity of this notion is obvious to doctors who perform intestinal surgery or peer within the large intestine with a diagnostic instrument. Fecal material does not adhere to the intestinal lining. Colonic irrigation is done by inserting a tube into the rectum and pumping up to 20 gallons of water in and out. This type of enema is not only therapeutically worthless but can cause fatal electrolyte imbalance. Cases of death due to intestinal perforation and infection (from contaminated equipment) have also been reported."

 

[slayadragon]

It's a nice thought that the human body (meaning everybody's body) is capable of excreting infinite amounts of toxins automatically. If that's the case, then we can just keep dumping toxins onto the earth in unlimited amounts without feeling any worries or remorse.

There's nothing in the literature that provides this kind of reassurance though. At most, what the literature shows is that a healthy person's body is able to excrete finite amounts of particular toxins administered in a single dose. Questions about what happens when people are exposed to mixes of toxins, or what happens when people who are already sick with other issues are exposed to toxins, or what happens when people get exposed to a particular toxin for years of their life (as happens when people live in moldy houses) go almost entirely ignored in scientific studies.

I certainly am not saying that any kinds of detox tools that are available now are in any way optimal. That goes for juicing and coffee enemas and everything else that people use to try to remove toxins. Anyone who says that they are not proven to work would be correct.

What's really frustrating to me is that science is not considering ways to remove the toxins that _would_ work. I think that if science set its mind to this problem, it could come up with better things to help remove toxins than these stone-age methods. I wonder when science is going to start looking into this.

Best, Lisa

 

[vli]

Is there anyone out there who can tell me they have benefited so much from juicing that it reduced say 50% of the fatigue and other symptoms they feel from CFS?

I am just trying to gauge from the patient population out there how popular/effective juicing is. Also, I'd be very grateful if someone could point out to me whether i'm saying it wrong by just calling it juicing. From what I read, if you juice but not juice FAST, you can still eat grains and nuts etc for lunch/dinner but you won't be on a fast. You'll just be drinking juice plus eating other foods. (Sorry the only person i can think of who is famous and has done this is Kris Carr--I'm trying to describe that kind of living (not just juicing but eating meals as well so you can sautee vegetables say or cook--yes cook!--brown rice pasta, etc).

 

[Sasha]

I've been juicing for about 10 days and that seems to have coincided with a period of feeling worse (today, much worse - I've slept through most of it). This past few days I've introduced leafy greens (kale, chard). I've only been having about 250 - 500 ml. It has all been organic.

Is it likely that this would make me feel worse? I'm wondering if this has been the problem or if I should be looking at other factors.

 

[slayadragon]

Juicing can loosen up a lot of toxins and thus definitely make people feel worse. Coffee enemas may help to relieve some of that.

 

[Sasha]

Juicing can loosen up a lot of toxins and thus definitely make people feel worse. Coffee enemas may help to relieve some of that.

I've read about coffee enemas and they seem a bit extreme! I'm wondering about clay baths (I've got some bentonite clay to try).

I wouldn't have thought I'd got a problem with toxins (no mercury fillings, etc.) but who knows?

 

[Seven7]

I bought the Book CLEAN is detox by juicing and other stuff, they do not recommend the program for "Spent people" the description of Spent would include CFS. I still juice but I go slow and add as a snack and not everyday or I get very loose BM.

Sasha there are very simple ways to do detox baths, google the recipes but like just adding baking soda and salt!!! The mud is awesome for skin but be careful will dry you out if not good recipe mix for your skin type.

 

[greysonjames37]

I love juice fasting. It makes me feel incredible, almost like a 100% functional, normal human being.

Juice fasting works for me, but regular fasting doesn't. Regular fasting seems to stress my adrenals and trigger a "wired but tired" feeling. Juice fasting leaves me calm and energized at the same time - my ideal state.

I've written a few posts about my experience with juice fasting. I credit juice fasting as being a huge part of why I no longer have TMJ.

Can I post my blog url here? Well, I'll give it a shot. Here are links to two of my juice fast related posts:
http://strangehealth.blogspot.com/2012/09/tmj-juice-fasts-and-castor-oil.html
http://strangehealth.blogspot.com/2013/12/juice-fast-sunday-revisited.html

 

[Sea]

I haven't read what the juice fasting protocols are that some of you have been talking about so the following word of caution may not apply. My father decided on a juice fast for weightloss. After 40 days of nothing but fruit juice and vegetable juice he had a heart attack. The doctor said it was because he had very little protein in his intake.

 

[Fogbuster]

Juice Fasting (with Kefir)



Hi Lisa,

I've had a fair amount of experience doing juice fasting, going back over 30 years. When I first started doing juice fasts (before CFS), I thought it was a miracle how I felt so much better than when I was eating solid food. Looking back, this experience seems to indicate I already had significant difficulties with digestion, and was, at least in part, setting the stage for my later developing CFS.

I continued to do juice fasts over the years, but noticed I had much less stamina over time to withstand some of the strains of fasting. I assume this was because of my advancing age, but much more likely had to do with my descending into full blown CFS.

I highlighted the above quote, because I'm of the opinion that the "psychological" factors they reference, is more likely due to the rigors of fasting (especially without an efficient detoxification system) than to any particular psychological makeup of the individual with CFS.

I've not done any juice fasts for many years now, but I've continued to wish I had the ability to do so. A couple years ago, after I began drinking copious amounts of raw goat milk kefir, I began to experiment with more of a modified partial fasting program which included varying amounts of kefir.

By adding this kefir to a more traditional juice fast, I found I was able to tolerate a partial fast much better than I have in the past. I believe a primary reason for this is because I feel I was "protein starved" for a long time because of poor digestion, and that the kefir pretty effectively addressed this protein deficiency.

My own perspectives regarding pwCFS doing juice fasting: Only do what your body can comfortably tolerate. Modify it in whatever way necessary so that it doesn't lead to undue "psychological stress", because this is most likely indicating a lot of physical stress. I believe any type of fast should for the most part be enjoyable and uplifting. "Grinding" through an overly difficult regimen is most likely going to be counter productive.

Best Regards, Wayne

Most important thing I've learnt on the path to healing. I used to think if I doubled the dose of an antifungals or juice etc I'd get quicker twice as fast, so I endured some serious psychological distress, oh what a mistake I now know it was!

 

[justy]

I watched the movie a month or so back and thought it seemed a great idea! i started having fresh vegetable juices for breakfast and still ate lunch and dinner as normal, hoping to work up to replacing two meals a day. The juices were lovely and the first couple of days i felt slightly more energy in the mornings, but a couple more days after that and my digestive problems became considerabley worse - severe lower left stomach/gut pain, nausea, gastritis pain back etc etc.

Always depressing to find something you like makes you feel worse! i am going to try again introducing very small amounts fo juice, rather thaan the large one i was drinking. I have IBS C as well as other gut issues, so maybe it's not for me.

And yes i live in Britian, where it is always damp and mouldy outside, and every single thing i have tried for my M.E has made me worse except for aggressive resting, whih only works if i do it all the time.

Great film tho...

 

[EtherSpin]

I'm quite a robust skeptic and though I've been on a million supps and drugs haven't yet had a halo/placebo where Ive thought something was helping to discover later it was useless BUT I tried a juice with Kale in lieu of spinach and was astonished at the difference that substitution makes, the first day I had 500mls or so in the morning, 500mls in the evening and the following day (and every day following that juice since - effects go if i skip it ) my default muscle pain/ malaise is just not present.
my energy levels are depleted as ever and I can easily give myself sore muscles with activity but if I do my normal pottering around, helping look after the kids, watering the garden etc I no longer wake to pain.
now I just have to dissuade the cabbage moths !

 

[Adlyfrost]

I have tried juicing- extracted or from VITAMIXer- greens, carrots, fruits- every combo imaginable.

Problem: sugar content in these food is too high to eat them exclusively- especially in their extracted forms. Green smoothies are still part of my routine- when I can tolerate them. Enzymes in these foods help fight viruses for sure!!! Help with energy too! ****(Be careful of high oxalic content in some greens- can be poisonous- spinach is one I never juice!)

However the high sugar, high vitamin content FERTILIZES GI making cozy environment for viruses and bacteria and candida- so moderation is key.

Protein such as in homemade chicken broth and fats such as in goat products works best as staple foods for me- then I eat salads and smoothies to add carbs when I can tolerate them.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

I just started juicing for the first time yesterday, purely because i've never been able to eat fruit for enjoyment and its always a chore as i hate the taste of fruit in general.

I'm mixing fruit, avocado and green veg, with spirulina and kefir. (The spirulina and kefir were already part of my diet) on day two and feel like crap on a stick at the moment. I'm in trance hell.