1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Leptin
Andrew Gladman reflects upon the recent IACFS/ME conference and the buzz surrounding a small molecule, leptin.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Judy Mikovits has been arrested

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by santi, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. jenbooks

    jenbooks Guest

    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes:
    110
    Hi Mark. I don't find it at all bizarre a researcher could knowingly commit fraud even when in retrospect outsiders are incredulous, and the researcher's career is destroyed. It has happened numerous times before and actually at very prestitious institutions. And in such case, I wouldn't find it at all bizarre that the researcher would try to hide the evidence--at that point what do they have to lose?

    I'm not saying it happened, in any way shape or form, but no, it's not unthinkable or bizarre.

    It's just human nature, and some people commit fraud or commit crimes. And yes, they are convinced they can get away with it at the time.

    It has been interesting reading this thread. I personally as a human being feel badly for Judy Mikovits and don't like that she's in jail. I hope some agreement can be arrived at soon so she can be released and sleep in her own bed. I was also upset on a human level that a patient had to go through the stress of having her home searched top to bottom.

    I personally can't imagine circumstances where she has to be jailed as a fugitive from justice. She went home. I mean, she could have travelled throughout Europe or taken a long vacation...But what do I know. I do know one thing. As far as I can see, WPI is toast. I don't think they can resurrect their reputation, ever. I was never ALL that interested in XMRV as a major cause of CFS/ME/chronic lyme etc, anyway.

    I do think, though, that no matter what, in fact in a perverse way, all the controversy, high drama, soap operas, etc, and even intransigence on the part of the players, highlighted this condition and helped change the dialogue forever, and that is actually a good thing. The condition is now taken seriously and there is a commitment on the part of big top researchers to help figure it out.

    Sadly though, I don't think they'll include chronic tickborne illness in all this....it never gets the same attention.
    Cort likes this.
  2. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

    Messages:
    877
    Likes:
    80
    If a third party was involved in this latest arrest stunt, I think it is a strike of brilliance on their part. It affectively destroys the two best patient focused people/orgs "with one stone." Kills two birds so to speak. Annette(WPI) and Judy.

    I still believe both(Annette(WPI) and Judy) have always had the best intentions when it came to trying to carck the ME/CFS puzzle. This is regardless if Annette and Judy had differences on management issues on a growing startup.

    In a better world, without politics from special interests, the outcome for patients would have been totally different.
    taniaaust1, Enid and currer like this.
  3. Guido den Broeder

    Guido den Broeder *****

    Messages:
    278
    Likes:
    175
    Rotterdam, The Netherlands
    Now that is interesting. 'Required to report?' That smells like third-party involvement to me.
    Also, laboratory materials could be more than just notes.
  4. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    Likes:
    694
    I agree with this statement and I agree with your signature. In a free society with sound money the CFS puzzle would be solved a lot sooner.
  5. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes:
    2,358
    Couchland, USA
    From what I understand (too tired to go look up the court docket, Lilly's statement, the lawyers' statement and the definitions of the legal code under which JM was arrested, but they are available in several places)
    it looks like:

    -WPI opened a civil suit for the materials, naming JM as a suspect, legally instructing her not to damage or tamper with the materials if they were in her possession
    -someone who has legal knowledge of the penal code (I find it very difficult to imagine it was WPI, but they, or another party) who knew she was already in CA alerted the authorities that JM had left the state while involved in a suit "punishable by one year in prison" and as such could be subject to a felony charge of fugitive and search of her and Lilly's property.

    It was easy to know she had returned home because on the day after the firing (I think?) we saw online statements from Lilly and Js lawyers attesting to that fact. Whoever alerted the authorities also instructed them to search Lilly's house, so it seems clear that whoever brought the criminal charges had full knowledge that JM had simply returned home, and had read the public statements by Lilly and Judy's lawyers. Action was not taken quickly enough to stop her from travelling internationally--possibly this kind of legal loophole-finding takes some time.

    As has been stated elsewhere, while this may be an application of the law that is technically correct, it is the kind of robust response usually reserved for pedophiles and murderers. We are not talking top secret military info here, either. It does seem disproportionate.

    Thank you Mark for your level-headed summation of the situation. I guess I am neglecting your advice by further speculating here, but this is what I see from my current vantage this morning. I would have thought that if WPI had *not* gone the further step of making it a criminal charge, that they would have immediately made a statement to that effect, if only for PR reasons. I too await the emergence of the truth, but I have to say that personally, I don't have faith that the criminal justice system can do a better job of truth-seeking than anyone else.
  6. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,384
    Likes:
    184
    Clay, Alabama
    Ocean, please see my post #109. I have references to lawsuits there where the company that owns the forum is ruled responsible for what they allow others to post on the forum.

    Tina
  7. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes:
    490
    The grant is from the NIH and they have strict regulations on accountability. If material is indeed missing and it wasn't reported, the WPI would be in a lot of trouble with the federal governemnt. I'm just reporting a fact and not saying it specifically pertains to this case.
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  8. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes:
    490
    The grant is from the NIH and they have strict regulations on accountability. If material is indeed missing and it wasn't reported, the WPI would be in a lot of trouble with the federal governemnt. I'm just reporting a fact and not saying it specifically pertains to this case.
  9. boomer

    boomer Senior Member

    Messages:
    143
    Likes:
    6
    wpi accountability

    Providing certain documents to gov't could be a condition of receiving future funding. But I would not think her notebook is the kind of document they would need to provide for such funding. Woudln't the gov't be looking for a final report or paper instead? I actually hope that Judy and the wpi both recover from this - Judy in a lab doing her research and the wpi funded from the government and doing good research too.
    RL_sparky and leela like this.
  10. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes:
    490
    I can only speak of my experience but the government, state and federal would go through everything with a fine tooth comb. Even small grants were extensively audited and that included notes on clients, our record system, etc. Usually picked at random and sometimes we were not given notice that a visit was pending but that was kind of the exception and not as extensive.

    Every little i had to be dotted, every t crossed.

    Accountability, is a biggie for future funding.

    It was a pain. TBH, but I guess necessary. Kind of the nature of a bureaucracy.

    I do hope things will work out. Time will tell.
  11. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    3,717
    Likes:
    652
    Hampton, NH
    I could have something to do with a charter (or somehting to that effect) of the WPI. People donate big money and want to make sure things don't just get "swept under a rug" just to protect someone.

    GG
  12. Parismountain

    Parismountain Senior Member

    Messages:
    178
    Likes:
    75
    South Carolina
    I'll tell you what justice is in my little brain. Put Annette Whittemore in a cell next to Judy. If Whittemore doesn't fly over to that jail and get her out of there like five minutes ago that says more than I ever need to ever know ever again about WPI.

    In the movie 10 Commandments - Let the name of Moses never be stricken from any memorial and never be spoken of again. Substitute Moses.
  13. Ecoclimber

    Ecoclimber Senior Member

    Messages:
    560
    Likes:
    791
    Mercer Island Wa
  14. TessDeco

    TessDeco

    Messages:
    20
    Likes:
    21
    .............
  15. TessDeco

    TessDeco

    Messages:
    20
    Likes:
    21
    The Chicago Tribune writes that JM is charged with two felonies: possession of stolen property and conspiracy by the University of Nevada police! Yikes!
  16. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes:
    490
    Conspiracy implies more than one person. I think. Anyone know the law regarding what conspiracy is?
  17. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

    Messages:
    162
    Likes:
    37
    In what sense could "conspiracy" be understood in English? In my language a conspiracy requieres two or more people.

    Would this mean other people could be involved?
  18. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    4,763
    Likes:
    5,087
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    The last paragraph:
    We're famous!
    Enid likes this.
  19. Nielk

    Nielk

    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes:
    3,752
    Queens, NY
    I wish we would be famous with nicer things than this tragic fiasco. It's a tragedy for all - the patients are being torn. Hopefully, the real truth will come out and justice will prevail but, definitely not with many scars.
    ukme likes this.
  20. Nielk

    Nielk

    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes:
    3,752
    Queens, NY
    I wish we would be famous with nicer things than this tragic fiasco. It's a tragedy for all - the patients are being torn. Hopefully, the real truth will come out and justice will prevail but, definitely not with many scars.
    beaker likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page