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Judy Mikovits has been arrested

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by santi, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Please be careful here Cort. Your words are close to libelling Dr Mikovits. You are basically speculating that Dr Mikovits, a scientist, has committed a crime, an opinion of yours that you have NO way of substantiating.
  2. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    Well, we live in very litigious times. If I glance back at the history of science, there were major power struggles, very consequential struggles, so often. You might not know this unless you read closely about what actually took place in so many earlier instances. Perspectives are challenged. Investments of institutions and resources. And so on. Then there is also the checkered course of human behavior. This may look worse, and different--jail, felony charge--than what has happened before, but it may not be essentially different than what has happened historically. Let's try to be compassionate and open-minded, even as we are following these developments. I hope we don't break out in a bar brawl over this, but recognize that we are really only on the sidelines, and so stand quietly and watch attentively.
    CJB likes this.
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Thanks - that made me look up the definition of libel:

    I'm not making a claim that gives Dr. Mikovits a negative image. I'm asking a question; why would someone, if they have data belonging to an organization, and that organization has filed a lawsuit against them, and they have been arrested in connection with that lawsuit (as we believe) not give up the data?

    I'm speculating... I know its not pretty but if it is true that she has the data why not just go to Kinko's, make a copy and then give the originals back to the WPI?...particularly if keeping it gets you into a world of trouble. I just cannot wrap my head around that...It may be that I'm missing something.

    I think speculation is allowed (even if its not entirely kosher to speculate about someone who can't answer back. Dr. Mikovits is under court order not to discuss the situation in public :). Perhaps I should keep my trap shut :))

    #3 - I can think of three reasons now she might want to keep the data (if she has it) - the last being that Dr. Mikovits could believe the WPI is not capable of using the data properly. I can't imagine that they don't have that capability, however, as Dr. Lombardi was the lead author of the Science study - which generally means that he did most of the lab work.
  4. drewmaster

    drewmaster

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    YES!!! It's like a really bad, made-for-television movie with a ridiculous story-line!!! Totally unbelievable.

    Drew
    leela, livingwithcfids and beaker like this.
  5. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Has anyone heard about the other lab employee missing? Any updates on that?
    livingwithcfids likes this.
  6. GaryK

    GaryK

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    :eek: where did you hear that Barb?? wow now that just makes the story more interesting, does'nt it? yikes!!!:D
  7. drewmaster

    drewmaster

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    Agree 100%. If she was found guilty in a court of law, there are people who would assert she was set up. This sort of hysteria makes the entire community look bad.

    Drew
    Tristen, Dolphin, ixchelkali and 3 others like this.
  8. floydguy

    floydguy Senior Member

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    You have got to be kidding me. How can the CFS community look worse? We are already several notches below Congress. The only question is whether we are more favorable than Jeffrey Dahmer or Jerry Sandusky.
  9. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Another possibility is that the contents of these materials would be essential in demonstrating whether the scientific research has validity which has been suppressed by the continued refusal to publish them, or to reproduce them using the methods outlined therein. This sounds more probable to me, since patents are owned on the content of said material, and the charge is felony possession, not fraud.

    ETA:Oh wait, KFG, I see your point, maybe...do you mean about the Vipdx test controversy? Did you mean WPI maybe have concerns that there is documentation by Judy in there that shows the tests they sold were inaccurate and they dont want that out there? SOmehow I hadn't got there yet in my wild conjecturing about all this. THis seems to be the only thing I can do with all this energy right now--post the latest thoughtstream in my head about it all. :eek:
    santi, Waverunner and Wildcat like this.
  10. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Wow, way to "other" anyone who has ever been arrested. And make us all seem monolithic in our support for Mikovits - we're not. I think most of us just want to know what the hell happened. She's not a personal friend of mine, so I do not have feelings of personal loyalty - I save that for people I actually know and can vouch for (and even then, people can surprise you.) I just really want to see the truth known and justice done.

    You are correct to note that anyone accused of a crime is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That includes those heinous OTHER people in the prison that Mikovits is being exposed to. And her being a scientist is, unfortunately, not germane to her being guilty or innocent. This seems like falling back on the argument that Dr. Mikovits isn't "the kind of person" who would commit a crime and that therefore she is innocent. That assumption, among other things, seems to presuppose that certain "kinds of people" commit crimes, and they are all dangerous and distasteful, and that Dr. Mikovits belongs in another class of human being. I have ethical problems with that line of argument, besides finding it unconvincing.
  11. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    Moderator: Post deleted: Inflammatory, rude and provocative response to Angela. Post also contained a potentially defamatory allegation against Dr Mikovits.
  12. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    No, it is not a fact. The fact is that she is CHARGED with being a fugitive from justice. This is a key distinction. She may simply have been returning home.

    Moderator note: Waverunner, if you want to retract this potentially defamatory quote, taken from your deleted post above, PM me and I'll remove it from Leela's post.

    Meanwhile, I'll leave Leela's succinct and accurate response in place as an illustration of the key principle that several posters attacking Dr Mikovits in this thread seem to be unaware of. There is a big, big difference between being (apparently) accused of a specific offence, and being guilty of that offence. Stating Dr Mikovits' guilt as fact, before the charges have even been formally read, is as wild, speculative, and potentially defamatory as some of the theories posted about the WPI's motives. Several posters have taken sides on the WPI vs Dr Mikovits argument and posted speculation about motives and events as if they were facts. Until the matter has been legally determined, this is most unwise: if you can spot the flaws in the other side's speculation, please try to spot them in yourself too.
  13. RivkaRivka

    RivkaRivka Senior Member

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    Dear ME/CFS Community,

    Concerned about Judy Mikovits's safety and well-being while she is in jail? I am. So I called Sheriff xxxxx and left a nice, not mean, voicemail: "Sheriff xxx, the world is watching what happens to Dr. Judy Mikovits, a world-renowned scientist now in your custody at the Todd Road Jail. Please treat her respectfully."

    I hope you'll consider calling, too.

    Rivka

    UPDATE: LIKELY ENOUGH PEOPLE HAVE CALLED BY NOW THAT NO MORE SHOULD CALL. SOME FOLKS ARE THINKING THAT IF TOO MANY CALL, THE RESULT WILL BE MORE HURTFUL THAN HELPFUL. THANKS TO THOSE WHO DID CALL. -- RIVKA
    madietodd, Enid and CJB like this.
  14. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    Laws regarding defamation vary from one country to the next, and within the United States, between states. However, in the United States opinion and speculation are not libel. Enough with the backseat lawyers!

    Whether the speculation and opinions expressed are done "in the spirit of constuctive discourse" is not for me to decide, but given how the events may reflect on the community as a whole, I rather think they are.
    Jenny, leela and Ocean like this.
  15. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I could be wrong but I don't believe this is true. Individual posters are responsible for their own comments, not forum owners. As far as I know that is how it works online. Again, I could be wrong but I'm 99.9% certain that is the case.

    ETA:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Decency_Act

    "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider". Effectively, this section immunizes both ISPs and Internet users from liability for torts committed by others using their website or online forum, even if the provider fails to take action after receiving actual notice of the harmful or offensive content."
  16. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    I am afraid that this might backfire, sheriff/police/warden, whomever irritated and take it out on her. They have a stressful job and that stress can sometmes spill over.

    I think letters of support sounds like a better idea.

    IMHO:>)
    Jenny, mezombie and dannybex like this.
  17. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I talked to someone who has some experience with the legal profession. She said that when a lawsuit is brought it's the judge who decides the conditions that apply. She said she felt that what probably happened is that the WPI brought a lawsuit and based on the facts of the lawsuit the judge enjoined Dr. Mikovits from leaving the state.

    The WPI probably had nothing at all to do with that or her later arrest. She also said that judges are typically VERY clear about the consequences of leaving the state and repeat them several times and ask several times if the defendant understands. They REALLY don't like if you then leave the state (if that's why Dr. Mikovits was arrested.)

    This person felt that the fact that Dr. Mikovits took no responsibility for the missing documents was probably a red flag since its highly unlikely they would just happen to disappear at the time of her termination. She felt that the fact that she hasn't simply made a copy of them and then returned the originals to the WPI was another red flag that something unusual might be going on.

    She also said that we only know a very small part of what has occurred. (Dr. Mikovits, for one, is apparently barred from talking about the lawsuit.)
    jenbooks and Jenny like this.
  18. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    I wonder if our resident lawyers can tell us what the law says if you reside in a different state than the one in which the lawsuit was filed?
    Also, could they explain how being a "fugitive" then permits the search of a friend's house?
  19. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Yes she may have been returning home - I think that's a really reasonable idea - but if the judge in Nevada ruled, based on the facts of the lawsuit, that she should not leave Nevada - then even returning home was an arrestable offense and once she stepped out of Nevada she was technically a fugitive from the law - as bizarre as it sounds. We don't really know the grounds of the arrest warrant were,though - why she was considered a 'fugitive'. I assumed that that was because she left Nevada but its not clear if there was a restraining order keeping her from leaving the state.
  20. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    whoops - did the same post twice again.

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