Joseph Cohen - Self hacked

[Sherpa]

You guys are so jaded & cynical! I get that chronic illness is depressing but don't dismiss the notion that someone might be able to offer some insights or tips that could help you.

I've consulted with Joe and the information I got from him was INVALUABLE, priceless. Best health consultant I've ever found. But I would only recommend him to people who are willing to Selfhack, or take ownership of their own health and do what ever it takes to improve it. I would not suggest him for someone who wants to be passively "treated by a CFS doctor" that's not who he is or what he does. He is a self-treated guy with an enormous amount of personal experience with supplements, antioxidants, vitamins and natural healing devices ... And he's done a shipload of scientific journal research. He was able to 'connect the dots' and suggest a fix to one of my major symptoms from something he'd read in a scientific paper abstract - a deeper level of insight than you'd find from most forum posters or even naturopaths.

His suggested diet and lifestyle changes were rather difficult for an advanced Selfhacker like me to get fully on board with, but making the effort to follow them was well worth it:

My anxiety, inflammation, brain fog has gone way down and my sun tolerance and energy levels are way up!

I was very fortunate in that my health issues responded very well to his style of healing and supplements. Your issues or root causes may be different.

 

[helen1]

@Sherpa, that's my view of him too, that he''s seriously trying to figure out health issues. It's a lot more than some doctors do.

 

[barbc56]

But I would only recommend him to people who are willing to Selfhack, or take ownership of their own health and do what ever it takes to improve it. I would not suggest him for someone who wants to be passively "treated by a CFS doctor" that's not who he is or what he does. He is a self-treated guy

In other words if you don't get better it's the patient's fault. Just like GET and CBT.

I wonder how the OP is doing since this thread is from May 2015 and only has 15 posts.

Hmmmm.

 

[taniaaust1]

Then why is he charging $90 for a 60 minute Skype call.

I guess that would weed out the ones not seriously needing someone to try to be helping them and putting time into things.

 

[taniaaust1]

One of the problems I see, is his recommendation of lithium orotate. Lithium dosage can be tricky, requires blood tests and has many side effects like weight gain, which need to be weighed with the benefirs.

My anecdotal experience with the prescription lithium was a nightmare. I was on a very small dosage and within two days had stroke like symptoms. I was told to stop taking the lithium and eat something salty which seemed to help a bit but it took several days being off the lithium before I felt better.

I am very sensitive to medicatione, yet on a very low dose, yet still had this reaction.

I have no idea about the validity of his other recommendations, but this caught my eye.

I wonder if he gets a kickback from selling the meds.? Some doctors do but tbh, I only did a short scan of the site, but I couldn't find any evidence of this. Does he recommend one brand over another as that can be a red flag.

Good luck.

Barb

Lithium Orotate is just an over the counter sold dietary supplement, it isnt the same as taking lithium. Some can be deficient of lithium.

 

[Sherpa]

In other words if you don't get better it's the patient's fault. Just like GET and CBT.

Nope, that's what YOU are inferring. I'm saying that I think Joe is best at offering advanced troubleshooting and tweaks for determined people who take full ownership of their own self-healing. I would not recommend him for someone who is too fatigued to cook, too broke to afford lots of new supplements and trial / titrate them, or too skeptical to try some unorthodox sounding devices or inconvinenient lifestyle changes and stick with it long enough to give them a fair shake.

My brother is sick with a chronic illness and I would not recommend Selfhacked to him, as he's not the "do it yourself" type. if Joe told him to adjust his protein intake to a certain ratio... he doesn't know how to cook and wouldn't take the time to learn how to measure protein content - so the advice that was helpful to me would be basically worthless to him.

 

[Snow Leopard]

Nope, that's what YOU are inferring. I'm saying that I think Joe is best at offering advanced troubleshooting and tweaks for determined people who take full ownership of their own self-healing. I would not recommend him for someone who is too fatigued to cook, too broke to afford lots of new supplements and trial / titrate them, or too skeptical to try some unorthodox sounding devices or inconvinenient lifestyle changes and stick with it long enough to give them a fair shake.

Some of us simply can no longer afford the time and energy on many different supplements. If you are well off then fine, but many of us aren't.

Given a general lack of evidence, we've a right to be sceptical.

 

[adreno]

I would only recommend him to people who are willing to Selfhack, or take ownership of their own health and do what ever it takes to improve it.

In that case not useful for the genuinely ill, but maybe recreational biohackers will find benefit.

 

[Valentijn]

I'm saying that I think Joe is best at offering advanced troubleshooting and tweaks for determined people who take full ownership of their own self-healing.

Right. So the entire responsibility in applying the quack's cure is in the hands of the patient. And phrases like "self-healing" are nothing more than new-age babble, again suggesting that the burden is on us to cure ourselves.

 

[Hip]

What @Sherpa is saying is clear and obvious. I am surprised others here are having difficulty understanding it.

Out of the people that I know — both healthy people with minor ailments, and those with serious chronic health problems — it is clear that some people by character do take on the challenge of trying to improve their health, by tinkering and experimenting with supplements, by trying out drugs, by researching their health issues, and going to see several different medical professionals to get as many medical opinions, and sometimes prescriptions, as they can.

Other people by character show little interest in doing this sort of thing. At best, they will go to their doctor for a diagnosis and some prescribed treatment, but have no drive or curiosity to take things any further than that.


For the first group of people, the self-starters, of which there are many on this forum, any clues, hints or suggestions you give them about a possible health avenue to explore that may better their condition (ie, an interesting drug, supplement, therapy or new medical theory), they will often jump at. They need no further prompting. Their own curiosity, experimental and exploratory nature, and desire to better their health is enough to spur them into action.

But the second group, the more lackadaisical people, just don't seem to have any enthusiasm for that sort of thing. They will take the first thing their doctor suggests, and make no further effort.


For the lackadaisical, it's no good giving them, for example, a book of possible ME/CFS treatments, because they probably won't even read it. For the self-starters, they probably already have that well-thumbed book on their shelves.

 

[Sherpa]

It's possible there are some symptoms, viruses, toxins or root causes his methodology won't help. But I think Selfhacked knows far more than the typical patient (and more useful info than most physicians) , and that some of his knowledge and tips could - at the very least - help many patients improve at least some of their symptoms.

I spent $250 on consulting, about $300 on gadgets, approximately $100 additional per month in supplements (no proprietary label or rip-off stuff, just competitively-priced supplements off Amazon or iHerb), and a bigger grocery bill due to healthier quality protiens, oils & veggies. I also had to invest a lot more time and energy shopping & cooking more frequently - but it seems to have really paid off.

Changes in my health I attribute directly to Selfhacked's articles & coaching:

Brain & body inflammation - reduced dramatically.
Social anxiety / OCD - completely gone. Now I only get anxious about things that should legitimately provoke it.
Energy - greatly improved. No longer mostly couchbound after work + "sick" with inflammation for most of the weekend. I can make social plans with confidence & do fun "normal people" stuff with some restrictions (pacing, diet, no late hours).
Post-exertional malaise - much less frequent, much less intense
Sun Tolerance - significant improvement, post-sun maliase is much less intense
Sleep - deepest and most solid it's ever been - even pre-illness
Metabolism + digestion - solid
Brain fog - greatly reduced

I'm lifting weights, gaining muscle, getting a tan and women I talk to have commented that I "look fit" or "seem healthy" - which is something I've never heard since I played sports in high school.

I would describe my discovering the Selfhacked site as nothing less than a miracle. I was very fortunate to meet someone who was able to understand my debilitating issues and help me. I spent 4 years constantly selfhacking and putting the foundations of healing in place (gut health, parasites, mineral imbalances, vitamin deficiencies, adrenal fatigue, thyroid issues, methylation, lowering stress, regular yoga / exercise, etc) and Selfhacked helped me find some missing, but key, pieces of the puzzle. Joe said a very large percentage of his clients do not closely follow his diet / sleep / lifestyle advice and then wonder why they don't improve.

 

[Mij]

Joe said a very large percentage of his clients do not closely follow his diet / sleep / lifestyle advice and then wonder why they don't improve.

These types of statements are exactly what members here are having a problem with- it's bs and insulting to people who are ill.

 

[Snow Leopard]

What @Sherpa is saying is clear and obvious. I am surprised others here are having difficulty understanding it.

Some people are down to the basics - they do not have the energy to do the reading to check whether the stuff is BS or not, nor the money to spend $250 + $120 per month extra (may as well be $10,000 to such people) trying things that probably aren't going to work (or they would be part of the standard treatment and covered by state or private health benefits).

I've thrown thousands of dollars down the drain to no avail. Plenty of us have.

 

[Hip]

I've thrown thousands of dollars down the drain to no avail. Plenty of us have.

Well I guess to an extent, that's a matter of luck: you can try out hundreds or supplements and drugs, which can be a considerable expense, and after all that money and effort, it may not yield any dividends.

In my case, although it took about 5 years of constant experimentation with hundreds of supplements and a some drugs, I eventually (thank goodness) found some supplements that eliminated my horrendously severe anxiety, and also some that improved my ME/CFS to a degree.

Pure desperation also played a role in my search for treatments, because the constant severe anxiety was hideous, and that motivates you as strongly as if you had a loaded gun pointed at your head!

Luck was also a part of it, because there are no guarantees to you will hit upon something that helps you. But statistically, you are obviously more likely to find something that helps if, by trial and error, you slowly test out hundreds of meds (over the space of many years), compared to not trying anything, or just trying one or two meds.

 

[tinacarroll27]

I am too scared to experiment on myself at this stage. I have done that in the past and somethings have helped but a lot of other things have not. I have also made myself much worse from trying things others have suggested! So for me I feel rest and time is all I can give myself at the moment. I also don't have the money! We need more research and better treatment and even just a little understanding from doctors would help! But I understand if other need to try different things! We need hope in our lives!

 

[BurnA]

What @Sherpa is saying is clear and obvious. I am surprised others here are having difficulty understanding it.

Out of the people that I know — both healthy people with minor ailments, and those with serious chronic health problems — it is clear that some people by character do take on the challenge of trying to improve their health, by tinkering and experimenting with supplements, by trying out drugs, by researching their health issues, and going to see several different medical professionals to get as many medical opinions, and sometimes prescriptions, as they can.

Other people by character show little interest in doing this sort of thing. At best, they will go to their doctor for a diagnosis and some prescribed treatment, but have no drive or curiosity to take things any further than that.


For the first group of people, the self-starters, of which there are many on this forum, any clues, hints or suggestions you give them about a possible health avenue to explore that may better their condition (ie, an interesting drug, supplement, therapy or new medical theory), they will often jump at. They need no further prompting. Their own curiosity, experimental and exploratory nature, and desire to better their health is enough to spur them into action.

But the second group, the more lackadaisical people, just don't seem to have any enthusiasm for that sort of thing. They will take the first thing their doctor suggests, and make no further effort.


For the lackadaisical, it's no good giving them, for example, a book of possible ME/CFS treatments, because they probably won't even read it. For the self-starters, they probably already have that well-thumbed book on their shelves.

@Hip have you joined the psychobabble brigade ?

You are saying self starters 'take on the challenge' of trying to improve their health whereas more lackadaisical people don't. Wow. What an analysis.

I have taken zero supplements for this disease, i take zero medication on an ongoing basis so by your reasoning I am not a self starter, or I am not willing to accept the challenge of curing myself.

Everybody is different and I don't judge people by what they try to do to cure themselves, but my reasoning is there is no scientific evidence for most of the stuff touted anecdotally as curative. So i don't wast my time, effort or money on them.

Some people may consider that smart.

 

[Hip]

I have also made myself much worse from trying things others have suggested!

You are not the only one! From bad experiences, I am always wary about trying out a new drug or supplement, because lots have worsened my various symptoms.

If I am trying something new, typically I will start at a quarter of the lowest dose used, just in case there are adverse effects.

I also don't have the money!

As I am not working, I have the time to search for the cheapest supplements. iHerb are very cheap in the US, or in Europe, www.healthmonthly.co.uk invariably seem much lower in price than anyone else.

For even cheaper supplements, you can buy in bulk powder, at places like purebulk.com in the US, www.myprotein.com or www.bulkpowders.co.uk in the UK, and www.bulkpowders.com.au in Australia.

 

[Mij]

@Sherpa I was not offended by what you wrote, I was responding to what Joe told you and probably others:

"Joe said a very large percentage of his clients do not closely follow his diet / sleep / lifestyle advice and then wonder why they don't improve". He does not have the abiility to determine why they are not improving and it's insulting to imply that they are not following his recommendations close enough or trying to get better.

 

[Hip]

I have taken zero supplements for this disease, i take zero medication on an ongoing basis so by your reasoning I am not a self starter, or I am not willing to accept the challenge of curing myself.

Everybody is different and I don't judge people by what they try to do to cure themselves, but my reasoning is there is no scientific evidence for most of the stuff touted anecdotally as curative. So I don't wast my time, effort or money on them.

Well, in your case, perhaps the issue is not so much being lackadaisical, but rather that you have managed to convince yourself that trying out the numerous drugs and supplement that other ME/CFS patients have found beneficial (and in many cases that small scale studies have shown beneficial), is not worth doing, because there have been no large scale stage III clinical trials on them.

Presumably then, you think that all the people on this forum who systematically try out supplements and drugs, and who do occasional find meds that are helpful for their ME/CFS (as I have), and report this on the forum, are lying, or are experiencing a chronic placebo effect?

And you think that the studies that have found certain drugs or supplements to have beneficial effects for ME/CFS are wrong?

And you think the internationally known ME/CFS doctors who prescribe these drugs or supplements to ME/CFS patients (eg: Valcyte, oxymatrine) are fraudulent?



Well, if that is your opinion, I am not going to attempt to change it. In a way, for practical purposes, your opinion is not a bad one, in the sense that someone could easily try hundreds of ME/CFS drugs or supplements, and still not find anything helpful. So at least with your views, you are saving yourself all that effort, which quite likely could amount to nothing anyway.

For me, I actually enjoy the process of reading and researching a treatment, and testing it out. And if it does have good effects, I enjoy further experimenting with it, to optimizing the treatment. I learn a lot biochemistry while doing this, and I find it really interesting.

But I appreciate that if all that sounds like a boring activity to you, it's not so much being lackadaisical, it's just that it does not float your boat.



So I guess my use of the word "lackadaisical" is perhaps not the best choice, as it does sound a bit pejorative. I guess it is more that for some people, the process of trial and error testing of meds just does not float their boat.

 

[barbc56]

Just because someone may come up with a certain conclusion really has nothing to do with how much research, thinking out of the box, questioning authority or even how resourceful a person is. It may simply be a different conclusion.

You are implying there is only one "truth" or path to improving one's health and if your conclusion is different, well then that means you are simply lazy or someone who buys into an idea without thinking. Where have we heard that before?

I just happened to find this article which I think is really telling. Joe is mentioned about three quarters down the page but read from the beginning.. It's all about money, being successful, driven, the american dream, yadda, yadda, yadda. Even if it means using mind altering or stimulant drugs without a legitimate medical reason to use them. As long as you achieve that goal. This guy even brags on his website about his type A or driven personality, so yeah you better believe he's a superior human being.

It's what I call "the Silicon Valley" mindset.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/nootropics-brain-enhancement/